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  • New to the Forum & need help dealing with Committee Chair & Charter Rep issue

    Hi -

    I'm an Assistant Scoutmaster in a Troop in NY and new to the Forum. My troop has an issue with our Committee Chair, Charter Organization, and Charter Rep. I'd prefer not to give too many details in public, but I am looking for help as many adult leaders are very concerned about this situation and we don't know what can be done.

    Feel free reply ... I'd be happy to provide additional details. Hoping that someone with lots of experience will read this note and be willing to talk with me about this situation.

    Many thanks.

  • #2
    Folks are gonna ask for details, but here's the bottom line ...

    The COR is appointed by the CO to wisely choose adult leaders (esp. the CC) to represent the CO's wishes and make sure the physical space is available for a BSA program. If the CO wants you all to do some good thing, it would be best if you did it. Problem solved. If the CO is not fulfilling their contract (e.g., they are not providing enough space for your rapidly expanding troop/pack), best look for another CO -- no hard feelings.

    If your CC is respecting parent's wishes and representing them well, the SM/ASMs work with him/her. If not work around him/her. If that's not possible and the COR is standing by the CC, find another unit to serve. Your DE might even know of a CO that's considering starting a unit and would love some seasoned leaders.

    Life is rarely as dramatic as most troubled units make it out to be.


    • #3
      Yeah, by "Charter Organization" you mean the head of your CO or your institutional head.. Then argument is over. You either have to follow what your IH wants, or find a new CO who agree with your viewpoint.. But.. If it is a break due to disagreement and hostility rather then amicable.. You need to know the CO owns all the troop equipment and the money in your bank account and even the Troop number.. If you leave, and it is a bad breakup expect to just leave with the uniforms that you paid for on your backs.

      The COR is close to bottom line, but if you think the IH of your CO may not agree with their decision if you can sit down and give them your version, there is slim hope.. Very slim, because the IH chooses a COR to make all these decisions for them, not backing his COR means the COR will probably leave.. It's like an Executive telling their middle management that they are wrong and siding with the employee rather then backing their middle managements decision.


      • #4
        Gotta say that is pretty stupid to ask for advise regarding a problem and being so vague that any advise is meaningless.

        Bottom line is the Troop, lock stock and barrel, is owned by the Charter Organization. What they say goes.

        Don't like it go find another troop.


        • #5
          Gotta agree with Base - Charter Organization owns the Troop. Don't like the Charter, or it's policies, then find a different Troop, owned by a Charter Org you feel is a better fit for you.


          • #6
            Well Basements' adivice is spot on, but I disagree with calling a newbie's first post "stupid".. If you want more info ask for it.. I thought what we had was sufficient enough to say.. "CO rules.. rest of troop drools..."..

            More info and we could maybe help him with suggestions for a compromise, that may be suggested.. Or, the positives of the CO's course the parents/leadership has not thought of.. Or, if it is important enough to leave the troop over, or if there is just some pride being hurt, and ways to get himself and other upset parents over it so the unit can move on, before it gets ripped apart.. Or if he wishes to leave how to find a troop with what he is looking for, or how to start a new troop..

            Guy may benefit from some other advice here, but I don't think we are welcoming him to open up and discuss the matter by calling his first post stupid.. Remember there are no stupid questions???

            So, Barring Basements, not so friendly post, would you like to impart more of the story to us..?


            • Baseballfan
              Baseballfan commented
              Editing a comment
              but, Basement, also I would not expect the doctor to call her stupid. It just isn't scoutlike.

            • moosetracker
              moosetracker commented
              Editing a comment
              Exactly, I would expect the doctor not to call the husband stupid, but rather to ask pointed questions in order to draw out more information from the man.

              Like I said, what was said did give a very detailed response. The CO is the boss.. Now if the OP had said. "My troop is having a problem, can you tell me what to do".. You would have an example similar to yours..

              As stated you answered it correctly, you just could have not added the first paragraph. It added nothing to your post, but being cantankerous to a newbie poster.. Give them a chance to learn how to write more helpful post through friendly guidance.

            • Basementdweller
              Basementdweller commented
              Editing a comment
              I have had my doctor call me stupid....after getting Poison Ivy for the third time to the point I needed steriods to take care of it a few summers ago. He even brought a picture of it in for me to see......Had a good laugh.

              But honestly who goes to seek help and provides no details.

              So what exactly is Scout like????

              Is it an excuse for non-confrontation????? Seems so here

              Lets run the law on the op

              Trustworthy.....No, deception and seeking advise with no facts
              Loyal.....No possibly backstabing the COR and CC
              Helpful.....No, zero facts to help with advise
              Courteous...No, again no information to help us help them
              Kind....Probably not as it appears he is in a fight with the COR and CC
              Obedient.... Guessing no
              Cheerful....Not enough information
              Thrifty.....Not enough information
              Brave No, hiding behind the lack of information
              Clean ...Not enough information
              Reverent Not enough information

              Sure I wasn't kind, wasn't meant to be....the original post just pushed my buttons. If you can't be bothered to post all the facts then don't bother.

              Again based on the original post

              Should he being calling Law Enforcement or simply stepping back and looking in the mirror?

          • #7
            Goldmeer your lack of specifics doesn't really allow us to help you much. If you could provide more details that could help us a bit.



            • #8
              ya ya

              a scout is kind

              But a scout is also honest.and trustworthy.

              How many one sided stories have we heard about people and CO's on this forum?

              Then this Fellow comes in with zero details and wants help.........So unless he or she is being not truthful in what they post here then what do they fear??????

              So what do we know from the original post????

              The poster is from New York, is an ASM and is concerned as is many parents????

              So exactly what the heck does that mean???????

              Like I said it could be a criminal serious issue or just a couple of type A's going at it.....

              The OP is completely worthless.


              • #9
                More then that.. We know the issue is with the CC, COR and CO on one side of the issue and that the Adult leaders (at least some of them) are on the other side of the issue.

                Therefore we know to tell them the CO owns the troop and the COR is selected by the CO to make sure the unit is proceeding in accordance with what they desire from their youth organization..

                We also know his reason for not saying more is due to this being a public forum.. So, yes.. Probably fear that someone else from the unit, or if this battle has blown up wider then their little unit.. Someone in the district may see it.. Is it fear of lying??? Why lie, here?? He won't get any good advise for lying.. That is some sort of assumption on your part. More like fear of escalating the dispute.. Someone in the group getting upset over seeing their dirty laundry aired over the web.. Or simply is desire not to air dirty laundry in a public forum.

                Definitely there are two sides to the story, and somewhere in the middle is the compromise -or- the truth.. But, usually the two sides is rarely due to lying.. If the whole upset is due to this person being the type that walked in and lied to one group about the other group in order to cause a civil war.. Why would his personality not be someone who would not delight in coming here and spinning alto of lies in order to cause upheaval in this forum.. Maybe his perspective is shaped by someone lying about something and he is on the side that either believes or disbelieves said person.. But, he is not acting to me as a person who came here in order to spin a tale of lies to us..

                Two sides to a story, is normally due to different perspectives on the subject. The perspective of being the Adult leaders out in the trenches with the scouts and knowing the scouts, and having goals based knowing the scouts and having personal interests.. Verses not being in the trenches, but having goals for an organization based on goals of the CO, or by seeing problems within the troop by not being so personally involved with the troop.. Or the perspective of looking at something as fun and adventurous .vs. someone who is more worried about safety and if a CO then their liability if something goes wrong.. Being the start of the new year and the new rules on homosexual youth perhaps is some disagreement on that issue. We normally only get one side of the story, we still have found ourselves siding with the other side, or at least seeing some possible reasons the other side is pushing for what they want..


                • #10
                  By the way, if the OP is still around and we haven't scared you off, I would like to alter what I said about the IH being absolute, and COR as their spokesman being very close to absolute.. There are some exception, but it would have to be something that is a strict BSA policy that the CO has signed a contract agreeing to follow in order to obtain their charter.. Or something that you feel is mental abuse to certain scouts..

                  They want you to hand out the rank advancement as candy.. Now this would have to be a definite statement of "just give it to them", or "give them this merit badge, but don't have them do requirements A, B or C.. BSA is very particular that no one add or remove from advancement requirements.. But, this has to be an absolute.. Not a disagreement about where the bar of competency should be.. ie. one wants it awarded on the first attempt the other side wants it awarded when they can do it blindfolded with one hand tied behind their back..

                  Or if they are telling you that if a homosexual comes into the unit, to be nasty and unwelcoming so that he quickly moves on.. Or make up a ridiculous excuse why you can not allow them in the troop, like you have to many scouts already..

                  Here is a link to what is signed annually by the CO in order to charter a BSA unit.


                  Again though.. You could get BSA involved if they are out and out not following the charter agreements, but.. then it is up to the CO to decide to comply -or- to give up the charter (and thus the BSA program.) Again, their decision to keep all the equipment & money etc, or to let you relocate to a new CO and they will sign the equipment/money over to your new CO for your unit to continue to use with them.


                  • Basementdweller
                    Basementdweller commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Your trying to draw conclusions and offering advice on no information.

                    We have no idea what his issue is other than it is the CO, CC and COR against some of the parents.

                    Like I said it could be anything from a scout being molested to the wrong coffee being served on a campout.

                  • JoeBob
                    JoeBob commented
                    Editing a comment

                    I like you better when you're contributing positive ideas instead of trying to prop yourself up by standing on others.

                    If you think a new poster acts without intelligence, ignore it. Why contribute to the total time wasted with 5 windy posts of your own?

                  • moosetracker
                    moosetracker commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Actually the above comment fixes the problem of drawing conclusions.. It accounts for a problem that might be the CO is not wanting the troop to run a true BSA program..

                    Can I recommend anything besides the CO rules, unless it is strictly against the BSA overall program, child abuse or illegal.. No..

                    Could we give more advise with more information.. Figure out some ideas of a compromise, offer some positives of moving closer to the CO ideas, or how they can take what they think is a turd and polish it up some and still have a good program.. Sure.. Can't offer anything like that.. But, still I am fine that given the sketchy post, we have answered to the best of our ability.

                    Agree with JoeBob - sometimes you are a great contributor to the thread, and other times you are not.. I guess it depends on what side of the bed you roll out of it your are a total grump or a pleasant contributor.. Right now trying to defend why we should all treat new posters with hostility, is not you at your finest.

                • #11
                  Well, that was refreshing. We get to complain about nothing, rather than something....


                  • #12
                    Everyone concerned about the situation should find a New Unit...Old Unit will either get the Message and Change or it will fail. Boy Scouts is about the Youth not the Units


                    • #13
                      When our pack lost its CO, the District Executive found us a new CO. Does the DE or the Council have the authority to discontinue their relationship with a CO and move the troop to a new CO?