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  • #31
    The minimum number of boys to have a troop is 5. 5 to start a troop, 5 to recharter a troop.

    Based on this, it doesn't sound like you have received your charter yet. Having the minimum number of adult leaders is not enough.

    5 is not enough to even pretend to use the patrol method.

    Starting a troop is a serious proposition. Are you willing to stay on when your son decides to go varsity football instead of scouts? Is there not another unit you can join? Or do they have problems, too?

    No one is perfect, and no single unit is perfect , either. Have you thought about trying to reconcile your differences?


    • #32
      >>"Maybe he gets something out of it, maybe he doesn't."


      • #33
        Second Class
        We have everything but our 5 boys. So no we are not a troop yet.
        Someone summed it up best is that I was under the false impression that the district was in the business of supporting new troops to get going. They only want the troops when they are have the 5 boys. My frustration lies in that the district is inept at keeping us apprised as to how things work. The DE told us in May she would fast track the SM application thru the steps. Now end of June, we are told that cannot happen until we have the 5 boys. Had she told us in May, our efforts to get some boys during the first week of summer would have our priority. Therein lies my frustration.
        We did check out some other troops, they are options, however the boys wanted to stay local. Reconceilation is not an option. I do not want to go in to the details why at this point.
        Commitment is long term. I have another boy who may be a boy scout in a few years. I fully expect that if we do not get our charter sooner, we will have in Feburary when the pack crosses over.


        • #34
          Hello Scout Nut,

          So here we have BSA application "A." It is signed by a real parent for a real boy and paid for with real dollars.

          Is this an application you'd accept or not?

          Can you point out any BSA rule that would rule out accepting such an application for membership?


          • #35
            I don't think "A Scout is trustworthy" applies to SP's situation. We're talking about bureaucracy. Finding loopholes through red tape to achieve something good is not violating the trust of another person. He is not being unreliable. He is not being dishonest. He has not forged anything or told any lies to anyone. He's doing it right out in the open.

            Apparently he can be trusted by his DE to deliver on membership and find creative solutions to impossible tasks. He can be relied upon to actually do the job. And he tells everyone flat out exactly what he is doing.


            • #36
              Hey Suzy !! Did not know you were still around, figured you left us a while back to our internal scuffles..

              So did provisional with a different council camp pan out for you?

              If you find you have to wait for a crossover if Feb.. It would not hurt to sign up with a good troop until then. If your other troop was poorly run, it would be benificial for both the adults and the scouts to take the intermediate time to learn from a well running troop the right way to do things..

              Just let them know up front your intentions are short term. If your new troop is a distance from them, then they should be happy to help start up a new troop and help give you some terrific ideas.. The boys can learn what the patrol method is all about from some older scouts, so that when you start your troop, they will then be the older scouts to pass on the information.


              • #37
                Unless you're located in an extremely small town, live in a very isolated rural area, your CO has very strict membership requirements or your two boys have no male friends their age, it's fairly easy to find five boys. All you need is three more. Tap your CO's members, too.

                Consider that one of the primary methods of Scouting is patrols, usually of 6-8 boys. It doesn't seem too unreasonable to ask for a committment of at least a patrol's worth of boys before you can get going. That guarantees that the troop isn't just a club for two families interested in getting access to resources.


                • #38
                  >>"So here we have BSA application "A." It is signed by a real parent for a real boy and paid for with real dollars.

                  Is this an application you'd accept or not?"


                  • #39
                    >"Can you point out any BSA rule that would rule out accepting such an application for membership?">

                    Thank you.


                    You are certainly entitled to your own prejudices. That's what they are.


                    • #40
                      >>"You are certainly entitled to your own prejudices. That's what they are."


                      • #41
                        Well, apparently it seems dishonest to YOU, anyway.

                        But in fact, nothing dishonest would be done. No one would be lying, cheating or stealing.

                        If I put two applications in front of you, one of which met your metaphysical standards and the other which did not, you would have no way to distinguish between them.

                        As you are aware, very often on this board people say they have been TOLD that Scouting requires that they do thus and such.

                        The very common reply to such claims is to ask people making such claims to show you a BSA rule requiring such behavior. You have already acknowledged that there is no such rule.

                        You are left with your feelings and prejudices to support your opinion. You are entitled to those if you wish, but you aren't entitled to foist your feelings off as the standard for ethical behavior.


                        • #42
                          Sorry, SP, gotta agree with Scoutnut on this. Sign paper members, whether for the relatively noble end of getting a troop up and running or for the ignoble end of padding the recruitment numbers to receive a bonus, is shady at best.

                          Suzy, I like the idea of going to Roundtable and finding a veteran Scout who can help get your unit up and running. Or work your way up the food in the council. The next step is likely the Director of Field Services. After that is the Scout Executive or maybe and Asst. SE, depending on your council. There's also a whole volunteer structure of district and council membership chairmen and commissioners.

                          There are a number of work around for this, including your unit being provisionally chartered unitl you can recruit the five extra boys. I'm really surprised your district professional isn't more supportive -- most of them would cut their wrists for a new unit. Actually, that makes me think there may be more going on here than you know. But I'm really surprised no one is looking out for two boys who want to join Scouting and go to summer camp. There's no excuse for that.


                          • #43
                            twocubdad - what is "provisionally chartered" exactly?


                            • #44
                              A unit which doesn't meet the criteria for a full charter but is given a time frame -- usually six months, I think -- to correct the deficiency or it is dropped. Honestly, I'm not 100% sure it is available to new units. I know at recharter a unit which has dropped below standards can receive a temporary provisional charter to give them time to fix whatever problems they have.


                              • #45
                                Hello two cub,


                                There is no such thing as a "paper member." There are fraudulent applications that don't enroll real boys, aren't signed by real parents, aren't signed by unit leaders or aren't paid for with real dollars. I wasn't suggesting any of that.

                                You are reading into this issues that aren't there.