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Can a SM be related to CC who is also a ASM?

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  • Can a SM be related to CC who is also a ASM?

    Our Scoutmaster's wife is the head of the Committee, which I guess is called the Committee Chairperson (?). She also happens to be an Assistant Scout Master. It seems like outright nepotism to me, but do the Boy Scouts have some sort of policy or recommendation on this subject? The reason I am asking is because my wife and I would like to have a conference with the SM and have the Committee Chairperson present too, but it seems to me like our meeting would be counter-productive. We are not happy about an incident in which the SM humiliated our son at a campout in front of the entire troop and then drug my son out of his tent while he was still in his cot one morning at 5 AM.

  • #2
    Well, the Committee Chair can't be registered by the COuncil as an Assistant Scoutmaster in the same unit, although I am not going to say it never happens. The Committee Chair is certainly not prohibited by any rules from going camping so I would venture to say the Committee chair is there as a member of the committee, not as an ASM but that really isnt the issue. The real issue is just what happened and for that we need more details

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, the SM and CC can be Husband & Wife, although she can't also be registrered as an ASM. This certainly has potential for problems, such as the one you've noted.

      There must be at least one registered ASM in the troop? Can he or she sit in on this conference? If not, maybe the Unit Commissioner, Charter Rep, or another Committee member.

      Comment


      • #4
        Chartering Standards of Leadership for a Boy Scout Troop:

        1 - Executive Officer (non-fee) (AKA Institutional Head) (per Chartered Partner)
        1 - Chartered Organization Representative (per Chartered Partner)
        1 - Scoutmaster
        1 - Committee Chairman
        2 - Other Members of Committee

        To obtain Centennial Quality Unit status, a Troop needs at least one Assistant Scoutmaster ... and the leaders need to be trained.

        Comment


        • #5
          Invite the Charter Organization Representative, and your Unit Commisioner (call your council to get contact info), to your discussion with the SM & CC.

          Comment


          • #6
            You didn't say whether there is a problem, other than your feeling about "nepotism". Is it a small unit? Not enough parents willing to take jobs? Many small units have to give adults several hats. However, if there are adults without jobs, then the CC should be recruiting other adults for the duplicate jobs.

            Comment


            • #7
              It is easy enough to remedy. Just ask her to resign as one or the other and step up and take one or the other position yourself.

              Just a thought.

              Comment


              • #8
                ASM cannot be a CC or serve on the TC. A married SM/ASM cannot be the two deep leadership on a camp overnight outing or on any outing...youth protection.

                Comment


                • #9
                  >>"A married SM/ASM cannot be the two deep leadership on a camp overnight outing or on any outing...youth protection."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Can you please site a BSA reference for this rule? I can not remember ever seeing this.

                    Yah, yeh probably can't remember seein' it because it doesn't exist.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Question was where is the husband/wife rule in GSS?

                      COMMENT: The rules pertaining to two deep leadership are found at page 1 and page 3. (Other references exist, but pertain to particular activities and don't impact question.)

                      The idea that husband/wife teams should not be the only adults on outings is not a rule in the GSS; it is contained in the syllabus of the Health & Safety Training Class that ALL registered Scout leadrs are requried to take every two years (it is NOT the same as the Youth Protection Training class). This is probably the class most often neglected when a leader is being trained.

                      The syllabus suggests that where another adult is available, its best to not use married couples. However, there is no prohibition (probably because there are a lot of small and remote units with limited leadership available).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nowhere in ANY BSA literature (that I can find) does BSA SUGGEST (even remotely, or in passing) that a married couple can NOT serve as 2-deep leadership, or even that it would be a better idea to use unmarried adults.

                        The only thing the syllabus for the Health & Safety Training Course (which BSA has NOT made mandatory for all registered adult leaders) says on the subject of 2-deep leadership is that 2 adult leaders, one of whom is 21 and one of whom may be 18 years old, are required for all BSA trips and outings.

                        Individual Councils, or Chartered Partners, might, possibly, have made LOCAL rules restricting, or banning, married couples in conjunction with the 2-deep leadership policy.

                        However, BSA National has NOT.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Health & Safety Training is required every two years.

                          Unfortunately, if you can cut and paste into these message blocks, I don't know how to do it. If you want a copy, send an email to denver4und@msn.com.

                          If you get the H&S Syllabus, you will find the following written on the inside cover page:

                          "All leaders should receive this training every two years....This course is to be conducted in concert with the District/Council Training Plan."

                          Unfortunately, it is national policy (followed by every council I've heard of) to list only the Training committee trainings when somebody asks "what makes a trained leader". Just like CPR and 1st Aid which are required for all leaders who come in contact with boys, this one is also not listed in those responses.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Online version of the Health & Safety Sylabus -

                            http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/19-100A.pdf

                            "This course is to be offered to all unit leaders, district staff, and council staff. All leaders
                            should receive this training every two years."

                            It does NOT say "REQUIRED", "MANDATORY", or even "MUST". It states "OFFERED" and "SHOULD", which is BSA speak for it would be nice if they would take it, but we are not forcing it at present.

                            I can understand why they have not made it mandatory as it is pretty much a combined, re-hash of all of the safety portions of the other trainings. As a BIG chunk of it is driver safety, it would make more sense to make that a separate training altogether. It would make a decent online course for drivers.

                            Still no mention of married adults not being a good idea for 2-deep leadership.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I don't know if the CC can act as an ASM but what really bothers me is this statement "SM humiliated our son at a campout in front of the entire troop and then drug my son out of his tent while he was still in his cot one morning at 5 AM." This is unacceptable if it happened as described. In fact dragging a boy anywhere could be considered criminal.

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