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GirlGuiding New Zealand removes god from promise.


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The UK was the first to introduce Scouting to the world. They just might be the first to run it into the ground' date=' too.[/quote']

 

I see no reason to believe that removing explicit references to God from the oath of a youth organization is "running it into the ground." It is a legitimate choice. It evidently will not be the choice of the BSA.

 

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"Run it into the ground" = change the program so much that one can't tell what it originally was. Sure Scouts will be around, but will it be anything resembling what it was 100 years ago? Obviously not. So what then has it become? It's called Scouting, but is it really?

 

Jury's out on that ...

 

Stosh

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The UK was the first to introduce Scouting to the world. They just might be the first to run it into the ground, too.

 

Stosh

:) perhaps you should go to geography cass instead of sunday school :) it New Zealand not the UK.

Besides what else has been the same for 100 years? Baden Powell did ALOT more to scouting than introducing religion into the scouting oath.

He was a man a great man and a flawed man, his word for lack of a better term is not gospel. Lets take the good he did and move forward with that.

 

TBH i hate the this religion thing is tearing scouters apart. scout should be about what scouting is about, being outdoors, doing good for the community and nation, making boy the men that will lead the future.

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Er.... Stosh..... New Zealand got independence from the UK in either 1852, 1919, 1926, 1931, 1947 or 1973, depending on how you read the history books. Whichever way I'm not sure what the link is. If there is a link though I'd respectfully point out the way our numbers are increasing.

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The sun never sets on the British Empire. I know where NZ, Australia, Canada, the UK, Ireland, the US, Gianna, Bahamas, South Africa and the Fauklands are...

 

Point being, one would think that with enough changes it will become impossible to identify the original, and the originator would be a bit more careful of preserving it.

 

Stosh

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As an ordained minister this is a difficult topic for me to take sides. Stout is correct that this issue has torn scouting apart and maybe taking religion out of scouting would make it easier to recruit again in schools, and bring in new members from families who do not practice any religion. Just because Baden Powell originally incorporated it into the program doesn't mean it has to remain. In our crew we have Christians, Jews, Muslims, Quakers, Native Americans, Buddhists ,etc.. and the subject of religion can be a real minefield if not discussed in proper context. The teens are more than open to hearing about other faiths, it is a few of the parents that are usually the problem. The Venturing Trust Award handbook is an excellent resource for all scout leaders who want to discuss religion with their boys

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Change is all around us whether we like it or not, but what we must realize is that Scouting is much more than what it was 100 years ago in BP's head. Just because God is removed from an Oath doesn't mean that you, as an individual, have to stop being a believer. There are plenty of non-believers who are decent human beings who live by the Scout Oath and Law whether they call it that or not. Milennial parents want their children to be good citizens just as much as Baby Boomers want their children to believe in God. (See that generational generalization I just made there?) The times they are a-changin' and maybe that's not such a bad thing...

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@dcsimmons, you have a good point and I respect that. But that inflexibility can be seen on both sides of the coin. There's a lot of missing-the-forest-for-the-trees mentalities at play today and I think we are holding onto things so tightly for the sake of keeping things they way they are rather than doing Scouting and keeping the boys as priority number one. Sometimes change happens on its own and other times it takes some inflexibility by one group to pull other folks into the next generation...

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@dcsimmons' date=' you have a good point and I respect that. But that inflexibility can be seen on both sides of the coin. There's a lot of missing-the-forest-for-the-trees mentalities at play today and I think we are holding onto things so tightly for the sake of keeping things they way they are rather than doing Scouting and keeping the boys as priority number one. Sometimes change happens on its own and other times it takes some inflexibility by one group to pull other folks into the next generation... [/quote']

 

or it draws like minded people into the in-group and the rest simply vote with their feet.

 

Stosh

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