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Alaska border patrol officer pulls handgun on scout, confiscates camera, detains group.

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  • #91
    I have been over that border more than once, and had issues with one Canadian guard outside of Whitehorse, but the US was never an issue. In London I found that one guy was a pain, but the next aisle was a delight. Sometimes this is all triggered by one person. My son had his Maglite flashlight taken from his carry-on because it was considered to be a club when the D-cells were in it. He was on his way to the National Jamboree.

    So who knows.

    I embrace the need for more data and information before the snap to judgement - only because I tend to jump to quickly myself at times. My Minister posted this on that subject today, thought I would share: http://myemail.constantcontact.com/E...id=Doqj5mrs-6U
    "Think Faust"
    I am trying to cultivate a simple but effective habit that I call, "think Faust." Dietrich Bonheoffer once observed how the legendary character Faust, after a life devoted to the pursuit of knowledge, lay on his deathbed and confessed, "I now do see that we can nothing know." It is a memorable phrase because, once again, it shows how discourteous Germans can be toward their verbs. But, it is memorable for other reasons as well.

    I've been reminded of Faust's words this week as our public attention is galvanized over three very poignant events: The plight of Yazidi and Christian communities in Iraq; the shooting and the aftermath of the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, MO; and the suicide of Robin Williams. At the heart of each event is a real tragedy, which evokes in us an insistent need for evaluation, interpretation, and some way of making sense of it all. What we seem not willing to tolerate is Faust's words, "I now do see that we can nothing know."

    There is something about Faust's simple admission that we cannot abide. Perhaps it is because we are sure that others can know nothing either, but that doesn't stop them from acting as if they do. Pundits, talking heads, and anyone with access to social media seem perfectly comfortable opining about practically everything, so why not join the fray? Whether we share our opinions aloud or simply carry the dialogue internally, we are caught in an odd place: Faust's confession may be true, but we have an urgent need to say something - anything - to make sense of what is happening around us.

    Here is how I am trying to "think Faust" about this week's events. As one who is not part of a minority community, who has not felt conspicuous when doing routine activities to which everyone should be entitled, I will "think Faust" before evaluating the claims or actions of the African American community in Ferguson. As one who has never been a law enforcement officer, required to exercise restraint and to consider public safety when encountering those who eschew both, I will "think Faust" before making widespread claims about the rightness or wrongness of police action. As one who is not in a perpetual struggle with "the dark night of the soul," I will "think Faust" before pretending that I know what causes or prevents suicide.

    It is not easy cultivating the habit to "think Faust" instead of resorting to the more popular inclination to "think fast." What comes out of the "think Faust" practice is not necessarily silence or inaction, but humility. It the humility of knowing that the world, human relations, and even a single human life is incredibly rich and complex, invested with far more than meets the eye. Living before a world like that, it makes a difference to say, "I now do see that we can nothing know."
    In peace,
    Mark of St. Mark

    Comment


    • #92
      At least one federal court has found in a suit managed by the ACLU that the policy of prohibiting photographing or videotaping certain areas at the border are not unconstitutional due to the duty of the Border Patrol to secure the border. The plaintiffs represented by the ACLU were two persons who were arrested for photographing such areas.

      Askins, et al v. Department of Homeland Security, SD Cal 12 Cv 2600 W (September 30, 2012).

      Defendants explain that their policy advances their “interests in preserving the
      integrity of its sensitive border search techniques, law enforcement operations, and
      criminal investigations.” Defendants’ asserted interest in regulating photography atthe
      border serves perhaps the most compelling government interest: protecting the
      territorial integrity of the United States. U.S. v. Flores-Montano, 541 U.S. 149, 153
      (2004)(“It is axiomatic that the United States, as sovereign, has the inherent authority
      to protect, and a paramount interest in protecting, its territorial integrity.”) Plaintiffs
      do not, nor can they, plausibly dispute that this is not a compelling government
      interest.

      ...

      For the foregoing reasons, the Court finds that CBP’s photography policy
      survives the strict scrutiny analysis due to the extremely compelling interest of border
      security and the fact that the Court finds the current policy to be the least restrictive
      alternative available to Defendants. Therefore, Defendants motion to dismiss with
      respect to the constitutionality of the CBP photography policy is GRANTED with
      LEAVE TO AMEND.

      Comment


      • #93
        8/18/2104
        Homeland Security OIG released their official report

        All press releases
        http://www.oig.dhs.gov/index.php?opt...211&Itemid=201

        Investigation of Alcan Boy Scout Encounter (allegations denied across the board, interesting how marijuana came up in the report.)
        http://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/pr/201...oy_Sco_Enc.pdf

        Allegations of CBP Gun Incident with Boy Scouts Unsubstantiated
        http://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/pr/2014/oigpr_081814.pdf

        Comment


        • #94
          $20K for the OIG to investigate and probably another $20K for Customs to investigate without any coorperation from the accusers. Oh well, it could be worse - at least the Scouts didn't set a forest on fire.

          Comment


          • #95
            I haven't been on this thread, but it sounds like the Scouts need a little education on what happens when you screw around at the border crossings. These guys have zero sense of humor and they can make things quite difficult if one doesn't follow directions exactly as outlined by signage and verbal directions. If you do, however, they are very pleasant and professional.

            I was with a bus tour of stupid college students once that turned a 15 minute routine crossing into a 3 hour ordeal with just one smart alack remark. They scoured every nook and cranny of every piece of luggage, they had everyone empty everything into the parking lot and then they scoured every nook and cranny of the bus.

            Going into Canada is no big deal, they want your money so welcome!!!! Getting back into the US is where the rub comes.

            So, when the officer asks you for your name, address, and passport, speak your name and address clearly and hand him your passport. DO NOT under any circumstances say, "Who wants to know?" There were any number of others on that bus, had they had a gun, would have pulled it on him too.

            I have also known about border crossing officers who were fired within hours of a less than professional demeanor as well.

            They are the only people out there protecting our borders, it might do well to cut them a bit of slack and treat them with respect.

            Stosh

            Comment


            • #96
              ~Agents obtained photographs of the sign, which says "NOTICE NO PHOTOGRAPHY BEYOND THIS POINT."

              Much irony

              Comment


              • #97
                So, are the scouts going to be billed for the cost of the investigations? While there is always room for doubt, it certainly does not weigh well on the side of the scout group based on the info we have been given. The real issue of course is the actual "accuser(s) not being allowed to be interviewed. Goes to show how easily things can get grown way out of proportion as to what may have actually occurred. Simply seems a poor reflection on this particular group, at least to me.

                Comment


                • #98
                  My former troop went to Canada every other year. We always gave them a serious talk about speaking when spoken to, answering respectfully, and not making "clever" remarks. Ditto for crossing back into (sadly) Litter Land.

                  We once passed a U.S. tour bus being disassembled by Canadian Customs because a passenger had made a joke about having "pot" in his bag. Who said ignorance is not rewarded?

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    The parents would not even allow the boys to be interviewed. Sounds like these Scouts need to come up with a plan to reimburse the taxpayers 40K or a charter and a few memberships pulled.

                    Comment


                    • Jblake47, "So, when the officer asks you for your name, address, and passport, speak your name and address clearly and hand him your passport. DO NOT under any circumstances say, "Who wants to know?""
                      H'mmmmm, is this the voice of experience, perhaps?
                      I've always wondered about that question. There they are with the passport right in front of them with the name printed on it. Do they really think someone who is impersonating another person won't practice saying the name so they will be able to answer that question? Are they only trying to catch the stupid terrorists? Do they really think this works?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by packsaddle View Post
                        There they are with the passport right in front of them with the name printed on it. Do they really think someone who is impersonating another person won't practice saying the name so they will be able to answer that question? Are they only trying to catch the stupid terrorists? Do they really think this works?
                        As explained to me by a former federal law enforcement officer, yes it does. A lot of people when under pressure will forget such false details. Plus, most criminals are not very bright.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by packsaddle View Post
                          Jblake47, "So, when the officer asks you for your name, address, and passport, speak your name and address clearly and hand him your passport. DO NOT under any circumstances say, "Who wants to know?""
                          H'mmmmm, is this the voice of experience, perhaps?
                          I've always wondered about that question. There they are with the passport right in front of them with the name printed on it. Do they really think someone who is impersonating another person won't practice saying the name so they will be able to answer that question? Are they only trying to catch the stupid terrorists? Do they really think this works?
                          Yes, the dufus two rows ahead... and yes, it was hot standing in the parking lot for 3 hours in the hot sun. I never want to repeat that ever again. Oh, and if the officer had drawn his gun, everyone else would have cheered him on!

                          Stosh

                          Comment


                          • Its a numbers game. Everyone makes mistakes, give them as many opportunities to do so as possible.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by skeptic View Post
                              So, are the scouts going to be billed for the cost of the investigations?
                              I could not find any other Homeland Security OIG report which stated the cost of its investigation.

                              Comment


                              • the border guard sounds like a complete tool.

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