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Alaska border patrol officer pulls handgun on scout, confiscates camera, detains group.

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  • #61
    "Fox said he will be represented by the Rutherford Institute, a Virginia law firm established by attorney John Whitehead that specializes in civil liberties cases. The firm's website includes essays by Whitehead warning of "life today in the fiefdom that is the American police state." ". I am starting to smell a political agenda here.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by King Ding Dong View Post
      "Fox said he will be represented by the Rutherford Institute, a Virginia law firm established by attorney John Whitehead that specializes in civil liberties cases. The firm's website includes essays by Whitehead warning of "life today in the fiefdom that is the American police state." ". I am starting to smell a political agenda here.
      Folks with a point of view look for opportunities to push it. Ask Thomas - Payne or Jefferson - or anyone who rants about what they see as wrongdoing.

      Free legal support often comes with strings attached, whether it comes from the left or right. I saw it turn a pretty strong negligence case into a loser of a crusade for the "civil right" of pelting law enforcement with rocks, burning down public buildings, and looting.


      And what is wrong with a political agenda per se? Almost every issue has politics somewhere around it, and involvement with issues is part of citizenship. Or you can be a button.


      Isn't the question "What happened?" As to which, still waiting to see the video and, given the refusal to release it, the results of a scientific examination of it.

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      • #63
        Still don't really know how the Alaska incident went down. Sounds like one of those deals where you ask 5 people what happened and you get 5 different versions. I guess now it's in the news we have to identify the "liar" when there may not be one.

        Anyway...I recently came back from England via Gatwick airport. Thanks to making the mistake of putting a bottle of mead in my hand luggage I had to hang around in security with my kids. For a goof I started taking a "selfie" of the three of us sitting on a bench. A woman in uniform came over and asked if I had taken any pictures as it was forbidden inside the security area. I replied no and she asked me to show the last picture on the camera. I complied and she was fine when it was a pic of me on a beach. She reminded me that pictures weren't allowed and moved on. No camera confiscation and no big drama.

        Maybe the Rutherford guy doesn't like the confiscation part of the story.

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        • #64
          According to link below

          "The agents, Hopper said, had spoken with another one of the four adults chaperoning the Scout trip."

          Hopper added, "The investigators have been very clear they are only looking at whether Border Patrol drew a gun on the Scouts. They're not going after the Scouts or their leaders."


          What about the alleged: prison term/$10K fine threat, 4 hour detention (or was that to change a flat tire?), and questioning scouts about packing knives and matches?

          The issue of SM Fox not giving permission to interview scouts may be that he is just not naming who they are and so the investigators do not know exactly who to interview unless scouts step forward on their own?

          This is getting more and more odd.

          http://www.desmoinesregister.com/sto...rded/13450109/
          Last edited by RememberSchiff; 08-01-2014, 08:00 AM.

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          • #65
            Que Ko Ko. ^___^

            I've got a little list — I've got a little list
            Of society offenders who might well be underground,
            And who never would be missed — who never would be missed!

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            • #66
              Mr. Fox's credibility is in serious question at this point, at least with me. I hope his health is ok and he didn't have a heart attack. (If anybody doesn't know what I am talking about, read the last article RememberSchiff linked to.) But I have seen two articles now that say that in addition to not identifying the two Scouts, he has DISCOURAGED the Scouts from speaking with the investigators. I have a problem with that. What is he trying to hide? I can think of a number of possibilities, and some of them aren't so good for Mr. Fox. And if I were the parents of these Scouts, I would not be happy that Mr. Fox was telling my son what to do. When a Scout is on a trip with the troop, the leaders act as his surrogate parents, at least in some sense. But they are home now, and they have real parents, and it is the real parents who should be counseling their sons on what to do.

              I also think that between the media and Mr. Fox, the facts of this matter have become so tangled that I think it is time to just stop guessing and speculating and see what happens. (Actually I thought that from the first post.) One article says a Scout took a picture and a different Scout had a gun pulled on him. Another article says the Scout who took the picture IS the Scout who had a gun pulled on him. Yet another article says TWO Scouts were held at gunpoint, and that's what the latest article says as well. Is the latest article just repeating an error from a previous story? Did Mr. Fox say that one Scout had the gun pulled on him, and then he said it was two? Who knows?

              The latest story also suggests that this now comes down to a question of whether, in a 45-minute video, an agent stepped out of camera range, held a Scout or two at gunpoint, and then came back into range, all in 13 seconds, and there is no un-holstered gun on the film. I am no expert on police procedure, but this seems unlikely to me. Of course, that part of the article could be wrong too. Maybe another agent stepped out of range for five minutes, but nobody's talking about it. But that's just more speculation and guessing.

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              • #67
                Who knows. All these discrepancies are well within the media's usual margin of error.

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                • #68
                  What's wrong with an agenda ? I don't know but the BSA says it is a problem. "....nor may any member use Scouting to promote or advance any social or political position or agenda;".

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by King Ding Dong View Post
                    What's wrong with an agenda ? I don't know but the BSA says it is a problem. "....nor may any member use Scouting to promote or advance any social or political position or agenda;".
                    Oh, using Scouting. To be sure. Didn't know he spoke for Scouting. Can't find where he did, but have not read everything. Did he appear at press conferences in Uniform or in front of a Boy Scout flag? All I can find are pictures of Fox in a golf shirt in front of some trees. Surely, if he did act under color of his role in Scouting, he is merely speaking as a citizen.

                    Our purpose, in material part, is to make good citizens. If - if - what he related did happen, a good citizen would raise a stink about it.


                    But, in any case, how does BSA enforce that?

                    Of course, there was a series of Honorary Presidents of the Boy Scouts of America giving State of the Union addresses, but we know that does not count.

                    In my youth, BSA was picketed every Scout Week by the John Birch Society for our integrated troops, World Brotherhood Merit Badge, and trick-or-treating for UNICEF. Filthy, left-wing, pinko Boy Scouts! Comsips at best!

                    Now BSA is attacked for, oh , this and that. Say promotong a social position or agenda. Filthy right-wing para-fascists homophobes! And guns too !!!!

                    As Joe Louis said of a different arena, you can run but you can't hide. Even when you want to hide.
                    Last edited by TAHAWK; 08-01-2014, 11:36 PM.

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                    • #70
                      I want to add a quick side note that I fully endorse the use of songs from Gilbert and Sullivan in these threads. Especially from my favorite, 'The Mikado'. So I have to ask, at risk of a hijack, TAHAWK, what part do you like to sing? While I enjoy the entire thing, I do some parts better than others. My object all sublime, I shall achieve in time - To let the punishment fit the crime, the punishment fit the crime, And make each prisoner pent, unwillingly represent - a source of innocent merriment..of innocent merriment.
                      Last edited by packsaddle; 08-02-2014, 07:05 AM.

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                      • #71
                        Sorry. I like to be the model of the modern Major-General; I quote in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabulus. (^___^)

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                        • #72
                          Getting back on track, I am glad the CE supports the individual scouts cooperating and making their statements to the IG investigation.

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                          • #73
                            I just deleted a topic which was a blatant advertisement and I also permanently banned the first time poster. I am putting this message here in order to have something listed in I&P.

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                            • #74
                              That's it? No follow up anywhere on this? I haven't found a mention of this since Thursday...ADD media I guess

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by duckfoot View Post
                                That's it? No follow up anywhere on this? I haven't found a mention of this since Thursday...ADD media I guess
                                Well it's not like a plane went missing. Besides what is there to report if everyone is clamming up and lawyering up.

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