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Alaska border patrol officer pulls handgun on scout, confiscates camera, detains group.

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  • Alaska border patrol officer pulls handgun on scout, confiscates camera, detains group.

    Good lesson about the lost of our freedom in America. I bet Eric Holder thinks the scouts were 100% in the wrong.

    http://www.kcci.com/news/officer-poi...078396#!bjJ1Xs

    Hope our Bob Gates wakes up and takes issue.
    Last edited by RememberSchiff; 07-22-2014, 08:24 AM.

  • #2
    I find it interesting that the council spokesman quoted in the article (who, according to the council's web site, is the director of field service) does not seem very upset about the incident. He says the Scouts learned a "valuable lesson." He seems to be assuming that the Scout who took the photo of the border agent actually violated the law by doing so. I am not so sure, and the writers of the comments below the article (who, of course, are just a bunch of anonymous people on the Internet) are mostly saying it isn't. I think it would depend on the circumstances. But nothing in the article provides any explanation for the officer pulling the gun and pointing at the Scout's head.

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    • #3
      Hard to imagine a worse response from the BSA. A "good civics lesson"? I would be livid if my child had been held at gunpoint like that.

      GeorgiaMom

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      • #4
        I'll bet that Eric Holder doesn't even know about this incident - it's fine to be outraged over this alleged incident (and that's what it is - an allegation - unless you can get a corroborating incident report from that border crossing, that's all it will be) but to project what someone not related to the incident at all, and in all probability doesn't even know about it, might be thinking is just not very Scoutlike. I'm sure you can find enough things that you disagree with Holder about that he actually is aware of without having to make stuff up.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by CalicoPenn View Post
          I'll bet that Eric Holder doesn't even know about this incident - it's fine to be outraged over this alleged incident (and that's what it is - an allegation - unless you can get a corroborating incident report from that border crossing, that's all it will be) but to project what someone not related to the incident at all, and in all probability doesn't even know about it, might be thinking is just not very Scoutlike. I'm sure you can find enough things that you disagree with Holder about that he actually is aware of without having to make stuff up.
          I would like to be proved totally wrong, i.e., that Eric Holder speaks out soon and states the scouts' reported misdeeds were in fact not illegal and if the officer did draw a firearm on a scout that officer has been fired. By my math, this incident occurred over two weeks ago (ten days into a now completed 23 day trip).
          Last edited by RememberSchiff; 07-22-2014, 10:44 AM.

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          • #6
            That article is really short on facts from both sides. There had to be something more going on for that officer to draw his weapon.

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            • #7
              Two sides to every story, but that situation is insane. I also imagine that the council executive is out of his mind or does not understand the situation or the laws.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by RememberSchiff View Post

                I would like to be proved totally wrong, i.e., that Eric Holder speaks out soon and states the scouts' reported misdeeds were in fact not illegal and if the officer did draw a firearm on a scout that officer has been fired. By my math, this incident occurred over two weeks ago (ten days into a now completed 23 day trip).

                Of course, that presumes that someone is going to report what is a relatively minor event (except to the people involved of course) all the way up the chain to Eric Holder. As a nation, we really need to start stepping back a bit and realize that not everything that is going on in a large bureaucracy is going to be brought to the attention of the Cabinet Secretaries or the President and Vice President. Unless the Scoutmaster filed a formal complaint, it's doubtful that the incident is even being investigated by anyone, and if a complaint was filed, it would be dealt with on a local basis, or at most at a regional office level and would never make it up the chain. Of course, someone at a national media level could pick this up and ask Holder at a new's conference and when he says, rightfully, that he would have to look in to it, the media will jump all over him for not being aware - and I blame us, the American people, for being so easily manipulated by the media that we would instantly scream for Holder's head. So maybe it's up to us to put a stop to such nonsense - to step back and say hold on a sec - we know this is outrageous, but lets concentrate on the folks involved and not jump to blaming the top level right away. Frankly, it's like trying to blame President Obama for the gun violence in Chicago - it makes people who hate Obama feel better but it also makes them look downright stupid.

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                • #9
                  I agree that the news report is rather light on details. It's hard to judge who was in the wrong here. As for the BSA spokesman, his quote is bad, but is it taken out of context? I have no idea. As for why the officer drew his weapon, I agree that in most cases a law enforcement officer won't draw his gun without a good reason. Unfortunately, there are exceptions. We don't know which one this was.

                  As for the US Border Patrol in general, unfortunately there have been problems for years. US citizens being detained with no reasons given, excessive force being used on persons, etc. I am not surprised that a group of boy scouts could have run into a problem with the CPB.

                  As for Eric Holder, I agree it's unreasonable to assume he is aware of this specific minor incident. However, what is not unreasonable, is to assume that he is aware of the general problems in the CPB and DHS.

                  As for taking a picture being illegal, here is what the ACLU says:
                  Videotaping or recording interactions with Border Patrol on private property, in vehicle stops, and at checkpoints, is not
                  against the law. However, CBP prohibits videotaping or recording anything on government property at a port of entry.
                  I don't think it's unreasonable to consider taking a photo falling under the definition of "videotaping or recording anything".

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                  • #10
                    This official source would seem to suggest that there was nothing illegal about the scouts' actions, and that the agent's reaction was out of line as well.

                    http://www.nyclu.org/files/releases/...(redacted).pdf

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                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=Rick_in_CA;n414296

                      As for taking a picture being illegal, here is what the ACLU says:
                      (would not paste quote -sorry)

                      I don't think it's unreasonable to consider taking a photo falling under the definition of "videotaping or recording anything".[/QUOTE]

                      That's a good point. Was the official a Border Patrol officer (legal to photo) or Customs officer (port of entry which may be illegal?). Anyway, if either pointed a handgun at a scout, I'm waiting to hear what the infraction or threat to national security warranted that action.

                      So far, neither side is talking (after the initial report) which usually does nothing to correct an errant procedure or educate both sides.
                      Last edited by RememberSchiff; 07-22-2014, 04:33 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Some civic lesson. A scouter knocks over a rock in a state park and it goes viral, yet when a Federal Agent pulls a gun on a scout it goes ... nowhere? There might be two sides to this story, but still, I get this feeling if it didn't involve scouts this would be getting more coverage.

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                        • #13
                          I'm not going to comment on US law as I'm not familiar with it.

                          However let's assume for a moment that taking the photo is a federal offence (and there seems to be some debate over that).

                          We are talking about a scout on a summer trip, no doubt exciteable taking a few photos. Surely there are more appropriate reactions than to start talking about arrest, fines, prison etc? How about something like "Son, can I ask you not to do that again, you are not allowed to take photos of us working." Job done as far as I am concerned.

                          As for pointing a gun, something tells me that there is a lot more to this than meets the eye. I doubt a law enforcement agent would draw their weapon without good reason.

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                          • #14
                            The scout did nothing wrong or illegal, a border patrol officer is not an undercover agent in any way so it is not illegal to take their picture They are little more than security cops whose duty it is to verify identities and citizenship and if there is reasonable cause can search for contraband. They can arrest and detain only if the ID is questionable or a person is hiding something illegal. That officer for drawing down on a kid for such a minor act should be terminated, they are better trained than that.

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                            • #15

                              Originally posted by BadenP View Post
                              The scout did nothing wrong or illegal, a border patrol officer is not an undercover agent in any way so it is not illegal to take their picture They are little more than security cops whose duty it is to verify identities and citizenship and if there is reasonable cause can search for contraband. They can arrest and detain only if the ID is questionable or a person is hiding something illegal. That officer for drawing down on a kid for such a minor act should be terminated, they are better trained than that.
                              Seriously? Why don't you take a drive along Arizona, New Mexico, California, and Texas and observe the many things the border patrol does in addition to your list.

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