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Boy Scouts march in Utah Gay Pride Parade

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  • #16
    Sure he made it political from the git go but I don't know if the parade is political from the git go. I would argue that the parade is not appropriate for the scouts to be represented in because of the sexual nature but that is not the same as political.

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    • #17
      Carrying a "protest sign" in a parade is a political act. Marching in the same parade as someone who is carrying a protest sign may or may not be a political act - it kind of depends on the thoughts and intentions of each individual marcher (other than those actually carrying the signs.) I suppose that under certain circumstances, the number and placement of the signs could turn the entire parade into a political act - but we do not have enough information here to make that assessment.

      But I will tell you what is definitely a political act: The retention and enforcement, in 2014, of a policy that says no openly gay person may be a leader in the BSA. That is absolutely a political act, and it is being done in the name of the BSA by its national leaders, some of whom wear uniforms at least part of the time. And even when they are not wearing uniforms, they are acting in the name of the BSA. So I don't think they are setting a good example for the idea that one is not supposed to act in a political manner while in uniform, or while otherwise "representing" the BSA.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by NJCubScouter View Post
        But I will tell you what is definitely a political act: The retention and enforcement, in 2014, of a policy that says no openly gay person may be a leader in the BSA. That is absolutely a political act, and it is being done in the name of the BSA by its national leaders, some of whom wear uniforms at least part of the time. And even when they are not wearing uniforms, they are acting in the name of the BSA. So I don't think they are setting a good example for the idea that one is not supposed to act in a political manner while in uniform, or while otherwise "representing" the BSA.
        So go join the BPSA.

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        • #19
          Scouter99, is that the standard we apply now? Anyone who disagrees with some aspect of BSA policy is invited to leave?
          Really?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by NJCubScouter View Post
            But I will tell you what is definitely a political act: The retention and enforcement, in 2014, of a policy that says no openly gay person may be a leader in the BSA.
            Some might argue that changing the policy is political.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by packsaddle View Post
              Scouter99, is that the standard we apply now? Anyone who disagrees with some aspect of BSA policy is invited to leave?
              Really?
              When it gets to the point that you want to ignore the rules and make ridiculous equivalencies to progress a political movement? Yes, I think it's probably best that one save himself the agony and find the organization he should have joined in the first place: One that shares his values, where he will be happy. You and are are discussing the very Super Moderator who shut down a thread because he doesn't like what people think about the heroes of his pet movement, is that where this forum is, pro-gay or shut up?

              The BSA prohibits the use of Confederate flags in patches, that's a "political act" Does NJ think that proponents of the stars-n-bars should be able to march in uniform at the KKK rally by some ludicrous reasoning that because BSA has made an internal policy decision they are acting the same as the protesters?

              The double standard of starry-eyed "progressive" agents provocateur who think the rules apply to everyone except their cause du jour is obnoxious. The BSA is an ideological movement, it has heard the arguments, it has made a democratic decision. Scouts/Scouters can continue to work the internal structures (which is fine by me), or, yes, they can do the logical thing and find a movement whose ideology matches their own out of the box. This malicious public campaigning that NJ is cheering isn't coming from a good place whether its from that burnt-out McGrath standing behind his poverty-stricken human shields, gloryhound Wahls, or sadistic tyke Tessier.

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              • #22
                Scouter99, which moderator are you claiming shut down a thread? And which thread was it?

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                • #23
                  Scouter99, I remember the first of many times that I was invited to leave and form my own organization. I merely expressed disagreement with a membership policy. For some reason, based on the content of the Citizenship merit badges that we claim should be understood and followed by scouts, I was under the impression that it was proper to express opposing views and that BSA supports this application of the 1st Amendment and the duty of citizens to express their views in our society. On the contrary, the opinion was expressed to me that as a private organization, those principles do not apply. It seems that you agree. And I must also be a "starry-eyed 'progressive' agents provocateur".

                  But I like your association of the stars-n-bars with the KKK. I agree...they do go together. So if some former scouts and scouters who still have uniforms, or even if some current scouters in uniform decided to march with the KKK in uniform, flying the flag, protesting its rejection by BSA...well it isn't a perfect analogy but we'll just have to work with it....the idea that you are expressing is that anyone who expresses sympathy with the protesters should leave BSA.
                  And for that I must disagree with you. I cannot advocate that someone should leave and form their own organization merely because they expressed an opinion. If they meet the membership standards they should remain members. Unless there is new standard which states that no member can express an opinion in opposition to BSA policy. When I see that, or something to that effect, written in the membership standards, I'll rethink things.

                  That said, I'm also curious to know what thread was closed and who did it?

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                  • #24
                    Scouter99, I can assure you that the moderator team isn't the progressive thought police. We don't edit, move, or close topics because of their idealogical content. We have from time to time closed or moved topics at the OPs request or when the thread devolves into personal attacks.

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                    • #25
                      Events such as Pride don't appear to be having an effect on scouting in the UK, in fact it doesn't even generate much media attention, except within Scouting
                      The Below text is copy and pasted from UK Scout Association website here http://scouts.org.uk/events/june-2014/london-pride/:

                      ************************************************** **************** Join us for a great day out at Pride in London, whilst promoting that Scouting is truly diverse, inclusive and open to all.
                      When: Saturday 28 June 2014, 10am until 4pm (approx)
                      Where: Central London
                      Cost: Free
                      Pride in London is a fantastic annual celebration of the LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) community, and culminates in London’s second largest one-day event. This will be the sixth year that The Scout Association has attended the event, and we hope to build on last year’s success. Whatever your sexual orientation, you are invited to join other adult volunteers and celebrate the diversity of Scouting on Saturday 28 June 2014.
                      We will be meeting from 10am, at a venue in central London near Edgware Road station. As well as hot drinks and a mid-morning snack, there will be opportunities to network and meet members of FLAGS (our National Active Support Unit supporting LGBT adults in Scouting).
                      By 12.30pm, we’ll form a walking group ready for the parade through central London which starts at 1pm. After the parade, you’ll be free to spend time enjoying the rest of the Pride in London event.
                      Booking:
                      Please complete the booking form if you would like to attend Pride in London with The Scout Association this year. Young people aged 16 and 17 may attend with parental consent, and under 16’s may attend alongside a parent/carer.
                      If you cannot attend this year, but wish to be informed about next year’s event, contact diversity.inclusion@scouts.org.uk. If you are interested in attending other local Pride events happening across the country this summer, contact our National Scout Active Support Unit, FLAGS.
                      For any questions or further information, please email diversity.inclusion@scouts.org.uk

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                      • #26
                        I often wonder why there arent and Straight Pride parades....Ive come to the conclusion we either arent proud (which ironically makes US in the closet now), or that it would be one of the most boring parades ever.

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                        • #27
                          Hello, hello, calling Rangoon! I'm still curious to know what thread was closed and who did it? Hello?

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Fehler View Post
                            Scouts often lead flag ceremonies at political events and rallies (and then leave). Is carrying the lead flags of a parade considered a flag ceremony?
                            Absolutely not.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by packsaddle View Post
                              Unless there is new standard which states that no member can express an opinion in opposition to BSA policy. When I see that, or something to that effect, written in the membership standards, I'll rethink things.
                              We're not talking about members expressing or holding opinions, we're talking about members using their uniforms to participate in political activities, which you know as well as anyone else is prohibited. It was prohibited before the vote, and it is again specifically prohibited in the membership resolution: "...nor may any member use Scouting to promote or advance any social or political position or agenda..."

                              Originally posted by Sentinel947 View Post
                              Scouter99, I can assure you that the moderator team isn't the progressive thought police. We don't edit, move, or close topics because of their idealogical content. We have from time to time closed or moved topics at the OPs request or when the thread devolves into personal attacks.
                              Right. Ineffectiveness notwithstanding.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Scouter99 View Post
                                Ineffectiveness notwithstanding.

                                I fail to understand why you referenced that thread. Several Moderators got involved in that thread. What should we have done differently in that thread? More broadly, how can the moderator team do better? We don't have all the answers. If you have suggestions for the team as a whole, or me individually, you can always PM me.

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