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  • #76
    Originally posted by MattR View Post
    Peregrinator, probably the same way you do (they're all fixed). At least in my temple there's a mix of English and Hebrew. We sing most of the Hebrew prayers. Considering I wouldn't come within a mile of a karaoke bar, I really like the singing. It gets me in the mood, so to say.

    What do Catholics think of ad-hoc style prayers at scout functions?
    If well done, I don't mind them. But then again, I am a Catholic raised in one of the Dioceses in the U.S. that has the least Catholic population per capita (about 2 in 100 people in the geographic area of the Diocese of Birmingham, AL where I grew up, are Catholic). I get irritated with our current Chaplain's aide (and our previous one), because that is the only way he prays. He's always asking for prayer requests and then bumbles around making it into a prayer. I know it's just the style of worship he's used to, because when I was asked to do the grace for the adult patrol at a meal, I did the standard Catholic "Bless us, Oh Lord" grace. The Chaplain's Aide's Dad mumbled something about routine prayers not always being sincere (or something like that). Didn't matter to me. Our CO is Catholic, and that is how we pray.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by jblake47 View Post

      I wonder if the Christians ever thought about how Jesus prayed considering he was Jewish and not Christian???.... ???? And yes, I'm anti-sectarian and it shows.

      Stosh
      Well, Stosh, He did tell us how He wanted us to pray, and gave us a specific prayer.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by perdidochas View Post

        If well done, I don't mind them. But then again, I am a Catholic raised in one of the Dioceses in the U.S. that has the least Catholic population per capita (about 2 in 100 people in the geographic area of the Diocese of Birmingham, AL where I grew up, are Catholic). I get irritated with our current Chaplain's aide (and our previous one), because that is the only way he prays. He's always asking for prayer requests and then bumbles around making it into a prayer. I know it's just the style of worship he's used to, because when I was asked to do the grace for the adult patrol at a meal, I did the standard Catholic "Bless us, Oh Lord" grace. The Chaplain's Aide's Dad mumbled something about routine prayers not always being sincere (or something like that). Didn't matter to me. Our CO is Catholic, and that is how we pray.
        Some of the ad-libbed prayers you hear from Chaplain's Aides, while heartfelt and sincere, can be pretty interesting. "Please let us all earn our merit badges and advancements, and don't let any of us die on the canoe trip" is one I remember.

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        • #79
          There isn't "Jewish prayer" there are specific Jewish prayers, and they are said in appropriate circumstances. Before eating, you say the blessing over the food you're about to eat. The morning, afternoon, and evening prayers are written out and standardized, the core for about 1700 years or so.

          In terms of the wording type situation... Jewish prayers fall into 3 general categories:

          Blessing, which are generally praising Hashem for commanding us to do something, or creating something that we're enjoying. They have a specific Hebrew wording.

          Tehillim (Psalms), that are read at specific times of the service, OR said for a purpose. Certain Psalms are said when hoping a relative gets better, the one for the return of captives is real big right now (after the 3 teenagers were abducted in Israel), etc. Some have a custom to say all the Psalms, for someone, which generally means divvying it up amongst dozens of women (saying of Psalms is a women's custom) to each recite 1 or a few.

          Supplications: these are going to be what you're thinking of... you're asking God for something...

          The wording is generally, "May it be your will" -- and they aren't ad-libbed. There is a prayer for livelihood inserted, a prayer for healthy children, etc., and they are inserted.

          But, the "May it be your will" is important, we never ask Hashem for something, we tell Hashem that we hope he chooses something.

          There is a fourth, "offering of a blessing" type, that is most appropriate for that. Which is an ad-libbed "offering of a blessing." But it's phrased in the May it be God's will format.

          "Thank you all for gathering here, and if I may offer a blessing, may we all return here in good health next year, God Willing" Often these more "toasty" blessings are followed up with the person eating/drinking a small amount of food/drink, so that they can "offer a blessing" but then processing to make a required blessing.

          In terms of English/Hebrew, technically speaking, prayers can be offered in any language understood by the petitioner, or Hebrew, but Hebrew is preferred. In a Reform Temple, most of the Psalms read as part of the service will be read in English, often responsively. In addition, the Morning Prayer and "Additional Prayer" for Sabbath/Holidays is merged into one prayer service in Reform Temples. Conservative and Orthodox Synagogues maintain the traditional two prayer services in the morning. Conservative Synagogues will generally do a bunch of Psalms in English, Orthodox Synagogues will generally speed read many Psalms mostly to themselves.

          But the Travelers Prayers (usually translated as Wayfarer's Prayer) would be a very appropriate one for a Jewish Scout to offer. The prayer offered after a life threatening situation might be a good one to know. The prayers over food come in handy.

          But as Jews, we never "pray in your name" -- we would never presume such as thing. We thank the Creator for things he has done and commanded us to do. All our blessings are blessings of Thanksgiving, NEVER direct requests.

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          • #80
            "I wonder if the Christians ever thought about how Jesus prayed considering he was Jewish and not Christian???"

            Probably in a mixture of Aramaic and Hebrew. Perhaps some Greek for when he was addressing the Romans drawn to him? (Eastern Roman empire spoke Greek, not Latin).

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            • #81
              Originally posted by AZMike View Post

              Well, Stosh, He did tell us how He wanted us to pray, and gave us a specific prayer.
              And he didn't use the word God, and he didn't sign it with his name.

              Stosh

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              • #82
                Originally posted by perdidochas View Post

                If well done, I don't mind them. But then again, I am a Catholic raised in one of the Dioceses in the U.S. that has the least Catholic population per capita (about 2 in 100 people in the geographic area of the Diocese of Birmingham, AL where I grew up, are Catholic). I get irritated with our current Chaplain's aide (and our previous one), because that is the only way he prays. He's always asking for prayer requests and then bumbles around making it into a prayer. I know it's just the style of worship he's used to, because when I was asked to do the grace for the adult patrol at a meal, I did the standard Catholic "Bless us, Oh Lord" grace. The Chaplain's Aide's Dad mumbled something about routine prayers not always being sincere (or something like that). Didn't matter to me. Our CO is Catholic, and that is how we pray.
                The CA's dad need a lesson on what it means to be reverent. And by the way, one does not ever need to apologize for the form, content, or quality of anyone's prayers. A simple, "I wasn't talking to you." usually is sufficient to deter any complaints.

                Stosh

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by jblake47 View Post

                  The CA's dad need a lesson on what it means to be reverent. And by the way, one does not ever need to apologize for the form, content, or quality of anyone's prayers. A simple, "I wasn't talking to you." usually is sufficient to deter any complaints.

                  Stosh
                  He's a nice enough fellow, so I just ignored it. No need to start a religious feud. As I said, I'm a Catholic in the South, I'm used to stuff like that.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by perdidochas View Post

                    He's a nice enough fellow, so I just ignored it. No need to start a religious feud. As I said, I'm a Catholic in the South, I'm used to stuff like that.
                    You have an understanding of reverence and tolerance, that's a good thing, but for this other nice fellow, "It is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."

                    This is why I have become anti-sectarian. I don't worship the traditions, I worship the religion. If someone's tradition of free prayer runs contrary to another's form prayer, there's something seriously wrong with their attitude towards their religion, it seems to be taking a back seat to their traditions. I'm a spiritualist, not a traditionalist.

                    Oh my we can't have people dancing, it's a sin!, but David danced before the altar of the Lord. Gambling is a sin!!, but the Apostles drew lots to determine who was to replace Judas. Drinking?? Well we all know about the scandal at Cana. The list goes on and on!

                    Stosh

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by perdidochas View Post
                      He's a nice enough fellow, so I just ignored it. No need to start a religious feud. As I said, I'm a Catholic in the South, I'm used to stuff like that.
                      Seriously... I volunteer to see the youth, if an adult wants my counsel, he can pay my hourly rate...

                      Given the historical disputes between Catholics, Protestants, and Jews throughout history, I'd say what we encounter is trivial... we get along surprisingly well.

                      There is a reason that the Jewish "toast" is L'chaim, "to Life." Alcohol is a poison, and can be drank for bad purposes, to death. When we have a drink, we sanctify the Lord with a blessing, and we drink to celebrate Life, not to abuse it, which would be to death.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by jblake47 View Post

                        And he didn't use the word God, and he didn't sign it with his name.

                        Stosh
                        ?

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by jblake47 View Post

                          And by the way, one does not ever need to apologize for the form, content, or quality of anyone's prayers. A simple, "I wasn't talking to you." usually is sufficient to deter any complaints.

                          Stosh
                          But if you are leading a group in prayer, you are speaking too them as you speak for them. Otherwise why speak out loud?

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                          • #88
                            Obviously, the best way for a group prayer before meals, or whatever situation, would be to simply ask the group to silently consider their blessings in their own manner and after a short pause say thank you. Then everyone that chooses to actually say grace or something has their moment, and those that prefer to not simply politely stand quietly. But even that would not satisfy some I suspect.

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