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What changes would you make if you were Robert Gates, the new BSA president

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  • #76
    Originally posted by qwazse View Post
    Perd's post in no way suggested one-deep adult leadership. He was very specific that the requirement was "at least one" of the congruent sex of the youth involved. For an all boys outing, the unit certainly may only have one male adult ...along with one or more female adult leaders.

    At least one same sex adult has to be there for every gender present at the campout.

    If only boys, you need at least one male adult leader [of the two adults].

    If only girls, you need at least one female adult leader.[of the two adults]

    If both are present, you need both a male and female adult leader. Fairly simple.


    I was sure he understood.

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    • #77
      On the subject of the growth of the UK Scouts Association:

      https://members.scouts.org.uk/newsan...e-rise/cat/428

      According to this year’s census, which is carried out annually to identify trends and development areas in the Movement, UK Scout membership has grown by 100,000 in 10 years, increasing from 450,455 in 2004 to 550,457 in 2014. This year’s census also reveals that the number of adult volunteers involved has grown from 14,596 to 104,281 in just 10 years. Female membership has gone from 69,996 to 128,042.
      So almost 90% of the increase in membership is from adults. It doesn't say whether the growth in female membership is among adults or youth but it's possible given the numbers above that membership among boys and young men has actually gone down.

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      • #78
        No matter how you slice it, the SA is doing way, way better than the BSA in terms of membership over the last 10 years.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by TAHAWK View Post

          One adult leader at a campout? I think not. Perhaps you mean one 18-year-old adult and one 21-year-old adult


          Boy Scouts of Canada went co-ed and opened membership to, gays, lesbians, bisexuals, transsexuals, atheists, and agnostics. Their membership crashed - down 63% If you argue it's not cause and effect, at least there was no increase in membership.
          http://www.scoutscan.com/issues/membershipstats.html


          We can't avoid the culture wars unless we abandon all talk of "values."


          If you stand for everything, you stand for nothing.
          Of course I mean two deep, but in the case of coed groups, one leader must be from each gender.

          I'm a local option fan. We already let girls into coed units-Venturers. I would have no problem letting each unit decide if they want to go coed or not. Honestly, the group that would be the most against it would be the Girl Scouts.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by perdidochas View Post
            I'm a local option fan. We already let girls into coed units-Venturers. I would have no problem letting each unit decide if they want to go coed or not. Honestly, the group that would be the most against it would be the Girl Scouts.
            Scouts Canada started with the "local option" then two years later imposed coeducation on all units (except those who partnered with religious organizations that ban co-ed youth groups such as Mormons and Muslims).

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Peregrinator View Post
              On the subject of the growth of the UK Scouts Association:
              https://members.scouts.org.uk/newsan...e-rise/cat/428
              So almost 90% of the increase in membership is from adults. It doesn't say whether the growth in female membership is among adults or youth but it's possible given the numbers above that membership among boys and young men has actually gone down.
              Unfortunately what was published by the scout association there was a horendous typo! The number of adults in 2005 was actually 89,712, so the icnrease to 2014 wa 14,596 making up about 14% of the growth.

              Thread on the UK equivalent of this can be found here complete with an excellent spreadsheet giving full analysis of numbers from 1998 to 2013 http://www.escouts.org.uk/forum/thre...osted-on-here?

              If you take a look at all the various breakdowns the fact is that you can't find any sector where membership is falling. Scouting is currently undergoing unparrelled success over here.

              Neither do these numbers tell the whole story. We have got waiting lists everywhere. We are turning kids away right across the country and in all age categories simply because we don't have enough adult volunteers. With sufficient volunteers we'd be through the 600K mark.

              From a personal point of view I took over as SL in 2009 and had 32 kids on the books night 1. I currently have 36, that is the limit I set based on the space we have. I have 12 on the waiting list which does not include those who automatically get a place because they come through cubs. I will be forced to go to 41 in September when I take the next lot. ie I could take it to 53 by the autumn And that is despite a new troop starting up approx 600 yards from where we meet also in 2009. They are full and have a huge waiting list as well.

              Peregrinator - you can point at Canada all you want but I'm afraid that the numbers in the UK tell their own story.
              Last edited by Cambridgeskip; 06-03-2014, 12:13 PM.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Cambridgeskip View Post
                ... We have got waiting lists everywhere. We are turning kids away right across the country and in all age categories simply because we don't have enough adult volunteers. With sufficient volunteers we'd be through the 600K mark....
                So 'Skip, if some of our disenfranchised homosexuals and atheists shipped across the pond, would you find them jobs and make good use of their free time?

                Or, when you talk about space limitations, do your countrymen really need to build/free-up more physical space for youth programs?

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Cambridgeskip View Post

                  ...the numbers in the UK tell their own story.
                  Sounds like a high class problem. What's the cause of the change? My first guess is they don't have enough people at the main office to even fix typos, so they aren't in the way. My second guess is they don't have marching band. What's your guess, Cambridgeskip?

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by qwazse View Post

                    So 'Skip, if some of our disenfranchised homosexuals and atheists shipped across the pond, would you find them jobs and make good use of their free time?

                    Or, when you talk about space limitations, do your countrymen really need to build/free-up more physical space for youth programs?

                    My particular troop has the equipment and adults (7 at full strength, typically 4 on any given evening or camp due to varying comitments) to take more kids, the problem is how many we can physically fit in our hall at one time. Having our own building we have the space to expand. We are currently looking to actively recruit a second SL (equivalent of an SM) to spin off a second troop. Currently none of the other 6 adults at the troop have the time to commit to being that person. Once we find that person we'll get that second troop going. If your disenfranchised countrymen want to hop across the pond we'll take them as long as no prior convictions!

                    And that is the same story across the country. Given troops on a given evening may run out of space but if new troops start there is typically space at a church hall or school or community center some where to fit them. The problem is finding the adults to get those troops going.

                    Here and there there are space issues, particularly in new residential areas where facilities like community centers are often few and far between. But mostly the limiting factor is adults.

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by MattR View Post
                      Sounds like a high class problem. What's the cause of the change? My first guess is they don't have enough people at the main office to even fix typos, so they aren't in the way. My second guess is they don't have marching band. What's your guess, Cambridgeskip?

                      Right I'll respond to this one but if others want to know about what has happened in the UK in more detail can I suggest a second thread or you PM me? I am hesitant to drag this away from what was really an internal debate among BSA folks. The last thing I want is to make it look like the UK is bragging. However, seeing as you asked.....

                      1. Fantastic PR. The 2007 world jamboree was a huge PR boost. The site of tens of thousands of kids from all over the world turning up and being on tv and in the press was fantastic. Having a celebrity chief scout. Started in 2003 if I recall with Peter Duncan (he'd been a children's tv presenter) and now moved onto Bear Grylls. Again big PR coup. Big emphasis on promoting the outdoor adventure side of things. Making sure that those who go on TV as spokesmen and women are generally young and, to be blunt, good looking. Shallow? Possibly. Effective? Definitely. We also get advice on selling scouting sent down to the frontline. The fact is that people do need to be told that photos of formal prize giving ceremonies and parades doesn't sell scouting. Photos of rock climbing, sailing and fires does. It's something that groups have mostly learned now but the message does need constantly reinforcing.

                      2. Rearranging the age ranges so we have scouts 10-14, explorers 14-18 and network 18-25. This much better reflects natural peer groups than the previous age ranges (scouts 10-15.5, ventures 15.5-21). For me this was the most important thing. Teenagers want to belong to something and you need to give them something they want to belong to.

                      3. Redesigning the uniform, in particular the trousers. Went from horrible brown nylon affairs to navy blue combats (what you call cargo pants I think??). And when doing it we listened to the kids. a big suggestion was dropping the necker. There was near insurrection from the kids. The tribal element of scouting is important and the group necker reinforces that. So the necker stayed.

                      Those are the main issues. But frankly I could ramble on for ages.

                      We have gripes about our HQ as well. Don't think the grass is always greener. I doubt you'll find anyone that agrees with all HQ do or an HQ decision that everyone agrees with. But then that's the nature of large organisations.

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                      • #86
                        So....all looks great so far. How's the food?

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                        • #87
                          So of all these suggestions, which of these changes does Gates have the authority to change on his own - as that was the question?

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by packsaddle View Post
                            So....all looks great so far. How's the food?
                            Their food is awesome. Ever tried haggis?

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by packsaddle View Post
                              So....all looks great so far. How's the food?

                              You want food, go see the Italians! No one in the world cooks quite like them

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                              • #90
                                The French might not agree with that. But all y'all do have some history with them.

                                Don't pull me into this fight, I've had good food all over the world, even places that speak English.

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