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This should have been dealt with at the same time as youth membership.

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  • #46
    I agree with Fred. If national allowed local option, that essentially ends national membership rules so at the district and higher levels there would be no rules other than what local people had chosen. I like it.

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    • #47
      Merlyn I, wasn't very clear. What I meant was the BSA can use that reasoning for not allowing atheists. However, I really don't understand why national council didn't either approve all gays or not approve any. I mean if you have a gay youth is that scout going to get booted from the organization when he turns 18? It is very silly to have done it that way. I also think that atheism will never get as much attention as the gay policy. Besides how can you be discriminate religiously if they have no religion? If the BSA were to say no more Jews, in boys scouts then you would have a problem. At the end of the day very few companies will support an anti gay policy.
      I agree, as well that a local approach might be better but national would loose so much power that they would never support it.

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      • #48
        There basically already is local option for everything except for gay leaders and atheists. A unit can decide for a whole host of reasons that I'm not fit to be a leader in their troop. (They want to make their unit one religion only, they don't trust 20 year olds like myself.) Why the BSA doesn't apply this to gay and atheist leaders and be done with the issue is beyond me.

        Obviously under local option a public group like a School would have to operate under their non discrimination rules.

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        • #49
          It's not difficult to figure out, Sentinel. BSA has to decide if the membership it loses by doing as you wish is worth it.

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          • #50
            Besides how can you be discriminate religiously if they have no religion?

            That's discrimination on the basis of religion. Besides which, there are believers who don't belong to a religion and atheists that do belong to a religion. It's still religious discrimination if you discriminate against someone for not belonging to any particular religion.

            If the BSA were to say no more Jews, in boys scouts then you would have a problem.

            ​Only because it's less popular than discriminating against atheists. Both constitute religious discrimination.

            At the end of the day very few companies will support an anti gay policy.

            Religious discrimination isn't too popular either.

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            • #51
              I wonder, when public schools stopped being charter organizations, did BSA membership decline as a result?

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              • #52
                Originally posted by packsaddle View Post
                I wonder, when public schools stopped being charter organizations, did BSA membership decline as a result?
                I can tell you that the schools where my Troop is have distanced themselves from helping us recruit because of the whole homosexuality issue. Only now are we getting any traction with some of the school administrators- for the past decade, we have not been able to actively recruit in the schools, nor have we been able to even have a conversation with principals or guidance counselors. It has definitely had an effect on our numbers in both Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by packsaddle View Post
                  I wonder, when public schools stopped being charter organizations, did BSA membership decline as a result?
                  I doubt it as churches stepped up and offered their facilities. I think the United Methodists, for example, sent a letter to all their affiliated churches asking them to offer to charter a Scout troop.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by packsaddle View Post
                    I wonder, when public schools stopped being charter organizations, did BSA membership decline as a result?
                    It declined, but it's difficult to say how much was due to cutting off public schools. It declined a bit faster compared to years immediately before and after, but the switchover appears to have been split between 2005 and 2006, as it looks like some units changed COs during 2005 while others waited until the end of 2005 to either change or dissolve, so some schools were still listed at the end of 2005, IIRC.

                    PS:
                    This has December numbers for 2004, 2005, and 2006 by chartering org:
                    http://www.praypub.org/pdf_docs/BSA_...hip_Report.pdf
                    Last edited by Merlyn_LeRoy; 04-03-2014, 10:36 AM.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by nextgenscouter1 View Post
                      ... However, I really don't understand why national council didn't either approve all gays or not approve any. I mean if you have a gay youth is that scout going to get booted from the organization when he turns 18? It is very silly to have done it that way. ...
                      Most SM's and Advisors I talked to simply resented the notion that right when a boy (perhaps one they've known for years) is earning upper ranks, some committee member could throw down an orientation card litmus test, when all this time we've been instructing boys that matters of sexual expression were between them and their parents.

                      BSA doesn't hold that same sense of responsibility towards young adults. If a potential leader can't "fit the mold" in this organization, there's plenty of other ways to do good in the world. And, a majority of parents served don't find it silly at all that the national organization should set standards from coast to coast.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by qwazse View Post
                        And, a majority of parents served don't find it silly at all that the national organization should set standards from coast to coast.
                        And for the past few decades that majority of the organization's parents, when surveyed confidentially, have been pretty stalwart against the girls, the godless, and the gays.

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                        • #57
                          What I meant was that it was shortsighted of leadership since it will create problems in the future. For example, you have a scout who makes eagle is a model scout all of the younger boys admire him, and he streghtens the troop. Then what he gets kicked out at 18? How many more boys would be lost when they see the stupidity of this.
                          Maybe the parents disagree but what do the scouts think? I am the SPL of my troop, almost an eagle, and have strengthened the troop and pack bond and I have no problem with gays. I will be the future of scouting not these parents who disapprove of gays. Of course most of these people pushing the Gay issue is doing it because they DON'T want the gays in scouting. It is only politics for these people. They wish to destroy scouting because of its pro American values.
                          I don't think we should let girls in and people shouldn't compare gays and girls as being the same. Which I have seen done in other places. Also just an extra note, when I argue politics I am branded as an evil nazi conservative wacko bird (anybody get that reference?) So i'm not a progressive.

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                          • #58
                            >>Of course most of these people pushing the Gay issue is doing it because they DON'T want the gays in scouting. It is only politics for these people. They wish to destroy scouting because of its pro American values.<<

                            Woo there scooter, I think you just stepped into the swamp of nonsense and may not find your way out. In your young life, you need to learn the skill of expressing reality without coloring it with your personal opinion of truth. There are quite a few reasons why folks oppose gay adults in scouting that aren't even close to your biased imagination. Hey, you know what that the gays are saying, "Don't Judge".

                            Barry

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                            • #59
                              Nextgenscouter1, here's the deal. Your opinion is secondary to that of Scout parents. I strongly suspect you'll have an epiphany if you are asked to send your 10.5 year old crossover son to summer camp with two gay guys.

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                              • #60
                                " I strongly suspect you'll have an epiphany if you are asked to send your 10.5 year old crossover son to summer camp with two gay guys."
                                Already there. Nothing happens. BSA is good with it because no one is "avowed". You just don't know about it. Prejudice is comfortably safe. All is well.

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