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This should have been dealt with at the same time as youth membership.

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  • #16
    Torchwood ... It is way too big to discuss here. Some is faith based. And inferring I should do more studying of my faith is rude at best. Faith debates are large and complex and also don't fit here. Anyway, at least as much or more has multiple other paths of reasoning. Way way too much to represent here. I wish you the best. I support that your charter org should be able to choose leaders as it sees fit. For me and my children, we will choose based on our beliefs and values. As such, I do not want my shortly-to-be 11 year old to be led by that example.

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    • #17
      I apologize if I was rude- not my intent. My belief system is one of acceptance- that there is room at the table for all walks of life, and that none of us are above any other. We are all stronger because of our differences, not in spite of them.

      Peace

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      • #18
        Torchwood ... And I can agree with you there. We are all each others brother and need to show love and caring for each other. And I agree that none of us are above another. By my faith, we are all sinners in many ways. Personally by my own faith and reasoning, it's wrong to say one sin is worse than another or to compare sins across people. It is a personal journey and that's the important part.

        I wish you the best. Peace.

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        • #19
          My personal feelings aside here, why are people who join a group that states they do not allow homosexual adult leaders surprised when the organization finds out they are homosexual throws them out? If you want to join the club, you have to abide by the club rules. For now (hopefully to change soon) BSA does not allow its leaders to be openly homosexual. Were I to join the Knights of Columbus, I would expect to be removed when they discovered I am not Catholic. Those are the club rules (I assume). we can work to change the wrongs but we should not be surprised when the rules are upheld

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          • #20
            Oh, I see what you are saying. No Torch, you are wrong. If it weren't about sex, then there wouldn't be a demand by the gay community for open acceptance. If you can't see that, then you need to step way back and look at the bigger picture. The gay community wants their sexual preferences out in the open for all to see because they want the image of their lifestyle viewed as equally normal by the community. Have you ever seen a gay pride parade? Shesh, you can't deny that isn't all about sex.

            This is why the BSA is in a very tough situation. They want to be seen as inclusive, but accepting gays gives them an image of accepting lifestyles that many consider inappropriate for their family. Its all about image for both the gays and the BSA.

            What we need to do is as you say is start respecting each other as we want to be respected despite our difference so that we can at least listen to each other. You know, act scout like by the oath and law. Also, civil discussions don't fit well with activist because they get their way by driving wedges.

            Barry

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            • #21
              pchadbo ... Knights of Columbus removal ... or not like beer.

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              • #22
                What the BSA needs to do is allow gay leaders. For the most part the people pushing this are activists and extremists they aren't going to go and get involved in scouting. For them this is all political, so we should just agree with them, allow gay leaders, and the issue is over with. Then get all the companies that cut funding to BSA to start giving money again. Nothing else will ever gain the same press that the gay issue does.

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                • #23
                  Most of the companies that have cut funding to the BSA based on their (the company's) nondiscrimination policy also include religious discrimination.

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                  • #24
                    Merlyn ... I'd be okay with local choice for that too. Chartered through a church, fine have a faith component. Chartered through a school, no faith component. I really don't have a problem with it. Just time to move on and get away from all the noise.

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                    • #25
                      Sorry Merlyn, the BSA does not discriminate religiously; they simply require a spiritual component. And very few, if any companies, would have a problem with that. Of course, if they did, then they too would be discriminating, which would contradict their stance. It IS a two way street you know.

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                      • #26
                        Fred: "Chartered through a church, fine have a faith component. Chartered through a school, no faith component. I really don't have a problem with it. Just time to move on and get away from all the noise."
                        I agree. Local option. This IS, for practical matters, what is happening unofficially anyway...except for the schools. If they went local option to the extent that schools could be completely non-discriminatory there's a chance that scouting could finally get past the 'noise' and back to scouting.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by packsaddle View Post
                          there's a chance that scouting could finally get past the 'noise' and back to scouting.
                          Pack just hit the nail right on the head.

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                          • #28
                            "Sorry Merlyn, the BSA does not discriminate religiously"

                            ‚ÄčOf course they do.

                            "they simply require a spiritual component."

                            No, they require a belief in at least one god. Even if it was just a "spiritual component", that would still be religious discrimination.

                            "And very few, if any companies, would have a problem with that."

                            I disagree, but in any case atheists would certainly have a problem with companies that had a nondiscrimination policy yet ignored it when it came to atheists.

                            "Of course, if they did, then they too would be discriminating, which would contradict their stance."

                            No, now you're just equivocating on the meaning of discriminate. Companies don't have a policy of "no discrimination of any sort ever", they have policies like "no discrimination on the basis of religion or creed".

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                            • #29
                              >>If they went local option to the extent that schools could be completely non-discriminatory there's a chance that scouting could finally get past the 'noise' and back to scouting.<<

                              My personal observation (very local) is that the general population has basically past the noise. Most folks I've listen too are fine with the adult restriction and don't want to get back into the "noise". I'm guessing it has to do with political correctness fatigue. But we can see it even on the forums, folks are reluctant to even discuss it. There was a discussion a few weeks ago on several different forums of why the BSA was loosing membership and the gay scout policy change was very low on the list of reasons in the discussion. That doesn't make sense to me except that folks are tired of the hostility of the discussion. The activist may have a different opinion and try to rev it up again (elections coming up), but for the most part folks are content to get back to the scouting business.

                              Business wise, the BSA has so many internal things going on that it behooves National to wait three or so years to measure the effects the last membership policy change had on their membership and contribution structure. Making changes in the future without knowing the consequences of past is like driving at night with the lights off.

                              Barry
                              Last edited by Eagledad; 04-01-2014, 04:23 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Good riddance...

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