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This should have been dealt with at the same time as youth membership.

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  • Originally posted by Engineer61 View Post
    Good for them!

    Nice to see a bunch of boys teach a bunch of old rednecks a lesson.
    It's always my favorite when a guy like you reveals his obliviousness to his own prejudices with diminutives while posting some drivel in support of tolerance.

    If you want to be part of an organization where hate-filled adults on a revenge bender use your children as hostages in a political game, get out of the BSA and join the Mao Youth or something.
    Last edited by Scouter99; 04-22-2014, 07:20 AM.

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    • In fairness, the copy of the letter posted in the Yahoo story was dated April 17th with a header that it was faxed with hard copy to follow. A fax from BSA legal counsel to McGrath and the Church's Legal Counsel. Now, why the NBC article said the BSA announced on Easter is another question all together. If I was inclined to place a wager I'd put my money on the source of the information getting to NBC as outside of the BSA. Just guessing.
      Last edited by dcsimmons; 04-22-2014, 03:32 PM.

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      • There are strong indications that the reporter has been part and parcel of this whole staged "news event"; so I suspect she knew as soon as they did, but simply chose to use Easter as one more negative image for her biased stories.

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        • I think I'll do this in bullet points:
          • I am for full inclusion--youth and adults.
          • Since I was Bear Cub in 1988, I have experienced the wonderful things Scouting has to offer youth.
          • Until I turned 18 I was continuously involved with the BSA, achieving the rank of Life and becoming a Brotherhood member in the Order of the Arrow.
          • I went off to college, grad school, got a job, and finally decided to become involved with the BSA again--14 years later.
          • Since the fall of 2011 I have served my Troop as Scoutmaster and I've seen how awesome Scouting is--this time from the eyes of an adult.
          • I struggle with the fact that gay men and women aren't allowed to be Scouters based on the policy of the BSA.
          • My friends, co-workers, community, Troop Committee, and chartering org support my passion for Scouting.
          • These same people are disappointed with the policies of the BSA--vocally against it.
          • I remain committed to the Scouts in my Troop because I know how much they are getting out of Scouting.
          • When I look at a photo of Geoff McGrath I see a Scoutmaster who earned his Arrow of Light and Eagle.
          • I see a man who is Trustworthy because he didn't hide the fact that he was gay. I see a man who was Loyal to his church and community. He was also Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, definitely Cheerful from the photos I've seen. He has been Brave to go through this very public spotlight.
          • I don't know about his Thriftiness. But he's been Reverent in his participation with Rainier UMC. He certainly looks Clean to me.
          • One of our Troop Committee members--who is also for full inclusion--says Mr. McGrath has only failed on the point of being Obedient to the BSA policy. She has a point.
          • I don't like this policy of not allowing gay men and women to be Scouters. However, it's the rule.
          • I think the rule should change to allow Mr McGrath to be a Scoutmaster. His Chartering Org wants it. His community stands with him. His Scouts stand with him.
          • By now the notion of a Boy Scout is more than an institution in the US; it's a household idea that means being a good, physically-fit citizen.
          • There is no reason for me to doubt that Mr. McGrath is a good, physically-fit citizen.
          • My intention is to continue as a member of the BSA because my passion for Scouting keeps me going.
          • As our Scout Executive says, boys join Scouting to light fires, go camping, and carry the biggest pocket knife their mamas will let them carry!
          • This is an adult issue and one that I believe puts us in a very bad light with the community at large.
          • We will very likely see that the BSA was on the wrong side of history when it comes to full inclusion.
          • This policy hurts recruitment in my community. People are rude to my Scouts when the try to sell popcorn. Donations to our Scouting for Food drive where down by over half from last year. Is this connected? I don't know...
          • I guess what I'm saying is, yes, Duckfoot, I think this should have been dealt with at the same time but for full inclusion across the board.
          • In the meantime, until the policy is changed, I'm going to continue to be an active Scouter, promote Scouting in my community, participate in OA functions, go camping, help mold good, physically-fit Scouts, and have FUN.

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          • Nice post. My experience has been the opposite of yours. We have seen people support us now more than ever, want us to keep Scouting the way it is, etc. This issue is likely regional where you may see one side and I the other. Friends in other regions largely have had the same experience as I have. Maybe it is a rural, small town thing versus a city thing? Maybe east coast versus west coast or north versus south.

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            • Originally posted by LeCastor View Post
              I think I'll do this in bullet points:
              • When I look at a photo of Geoff McGrath I see a Scoutmaster who earned his Arrow of Light and Eagle.
              • I see a man who is Trustworthy because he didn't hide the fact that he was gay. I see a man who was Loyal to his church and community. He was also Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, definitely Cheerful from the photos I've seen. He has been Brave to go through this very public spotlight.
              • I don't know about his Thriftiness. But he's been Reverent in his participation with Rainier UMC. He certainly looks Clean to me.
              • One of our Troop Committee members--who is also for full inclusion--says Mr. McGrath has only failed on the point of being Obedient to the BSA policy. She has a point.
              M hm. And when the clean, morally straight McGrath takes your scouts to the gay pride parade--as he actually did in Utah and wanted to in New Orleans--do you want your scouts and sons next to the body-painted men in g-strings, or amongst the Gay Aquatics Club, or do you want them marching beside the strippers float?

              Utah is tame, but McGrath wants to take your son to all the gay pride parades:
              "Be Prepared: This weekend more Boy Scouts will be participating in civic Gay Pride Festivals and Parades throughout America. Indeed this weekend, next weekend, the weekends thereafter. Even though there are five weekends in the month of June this year, community Gay Pride events will happen all the way through to Autumn, and the last Pride event of note is in Dallas September 15, 2013. Consider Dallas the home of the Boy Scouts of America. It will be wonderful: Boy Scouts of America will participate. Prepare now. For a summer of fun, patriotism, and pride. " -http://oldscoutspromise.blogspot.com/2013/06/day-34-patriotic-duty.html

              Maybe McGrath can introduce your scouts to the gay masters, or to the leather daddies in San Francisco. Or to the trannies at the New Orleans decadence festival.

              It's actually my dearest, dearest hope that that is exactly what happens. Please, please, please trust your son to Dave and Geoff McGrath. People here often say "send boys into the woods" re: gays, but I'd like you to just send your boys into the street with them.

              McGrath is about 100 miles away from anything like friendly, courteous, obedient, reverent, cheerful, etc.

              I've got my own moral shortcomings, I don't invite the boys over to celebrate them with me and 1000 of my naked friends.

              (obviously, none of these photo links are work or family safe, click at your own risk. Severe reality risk to idealistic inclusionists)
              Last edited by Scouter99; 04-24-2014, 12:32 PM.

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              • Thanks, Scouter99, for the new moniker!

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                • Your supposed to warn us at the top about NSFW. not burried in the fine print at the bottom. I think I hear the IT Police marching down the hall. Gotta go.

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                  • Originally posted by King Ding Dong View Post
                    Your supposed to warn us at the top about NSFW. not burried in the fine print at the bottom. I think I hear the IT Police marching down the hall. Gotta go.
                    Just scream "DIVERSITY!" while IT and HR search your hard drive, King Ding Dong.

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                    • Originally posted by King Ding Dong View Post
                      Your supposed to warn us at the top about NSFW. not burried in the fine print at the bottom. I think I hear the IT Police marching down the hall. Gotta go.
                      This is your big chance to leave your crummy desk job and work for Disney; they're all about the love that dare not speak its name.

                      (part of my duties at my first job in high school was tracking down and deleting porn from employee desktops/server space :/ )

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                      • Scouter must have been an exciting job . I really hate how the BSA have become a political battle ground for right/left christian/gay whatever you want to call it. This man wasn't some average gay man who will join scouting to help scouts he had political driven goals. I feel very bad for the scouts to be pawns in this mans game. He wanted to make the BSA look bad. Again the BSA screwed up. They shouldn't have said "because he is gay", but that he was putting the boys in a moral corrupt situation, or politicizing scouting to one view point. This was a lack of thoughts or political stupidity on BSA parts.

                        Just like the incident with the gay scout who was denied his eagle. He declared he was atheist and gay, but the BSA said he wouldn't receive Eagle because he was gay. The BSA walks into every trap set by the liberal media and anti BSA activists.

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                        • Originally posted by nextgenscouter1 View Post
                          ... Again the BSA screwed up. They shouldn't have said "because he is gay", but that he was putting the boys in a moral corrupt situation, or politicizing scouting to one view point. ...The BSA walks into every trap set by the liberal media and anti BSA activists.
                          Here's the thing ... if you have to dismiss somebody, you shouldn't throw every scandalous thing that you despise about them in their face. It's not courteous. This little "line in the sand" that BSA has drawn makes it easy for them to do just that without making a media spectacle of the guy.

                          Accepting homosexuals in the 21st century means accepting their activist agenda. Any given homosexual you know may not adhere to that agenda. But, the movement as a whole as learned that to avoid being on the receiving end of police action, they need to be open about everything and everyone whom they stand with to represent. Some folks call that "desensitization", others call it being brutally honest. Regardless, the intent is to represent that to every organization of prominence.

                          Thus Mr. McGrath would not be satisfied with quietly starting a Baden Powell Service Organization, which would better suit the predilections of the CO, it seems. He would not face the "oppression" he needs to gain the admiration of his peers.

                          Or, maybe there's another motive that somebody can blog about. But the BSA professional staff would have no business doing that.

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                          • Qwaze my point is the BSA is handling these types of issues with stupidity. They should have been more political in the way they chose to get rid of him. I think the BSA staff should address the negative attention they are getting. Not ignore it, but face it. They should have a middle aged, well dressed, and well spoken representative engage the press on the BSA's terms. Such as go on channels that would be more BSA friendly. They should have said they fired Mr. McGrath for having the boys be in uniform at a Gay Pride Parade. Just like they would fire a Scout Master for having his boys march in a Tea Party parade or a pro Israels parade.
                            I also don't believe he is trying to gain admiration from his peers. I think this is a calculated move by him to make the BSA look bad. To allow anti BSA groups to put more pressure on our donors. Look at the number of companions that stopped funding the BSA, this is another ploy to get companions/donors to stop giving money.
                            Here is an article stating some of the companions. http://www.wnd.com/2013/02/look-whic...ng-boy-scouts/

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                            • Even if Smith was more slick, the biggest issue is that the media doesn't give a rip about the truth, nor do partisans like LeCastor who thinks McGrath is just a standup guy who is a victim and ought to be allowed to take Cub Scouts to frolic with leather dads wearing assless chaps. No matter how Smith words "McGrath was removed for willfully repeatedly violating BSA's policies in regards to political activities and not being eligible to be a member" the headline will always read "Gay Leader Removed for Being Gay"
                              McGrath has been in the news for a year and he was still allowed to register as the chartering SM of a unit, and wasn't removed until he called the news to make a big deal out of being a gay leader. As in other cases, he was only removed after using Scouting as a platform for his political agenda.

                              I got blessed out for saying a certificate was signed by "everyone's favorite president" at a scout meeting (and I shouldn't have said that, honestly), I can't even imagine taking, say, a Tea Party banner to fly on troop outings. Yet here's McGrath flying the rainbow flag on troop trips and he's a hero to the people who agree with him. Grow up.

                              He's not interested in growing Scouting or helping underserved youth, he wants to throw a firebomb, and kill public and corporate support which will never come back regardless of future policy changes. There are plenty of gay people in Scouting who are truly interested in the movement and who know like the rest of us that change happens naturally and I believe this would have changed a lot sooner if the lawsuits and money battles hadn't forced people into corners.
                              Last edited by Scouter99; 04-26-2014, 11:42 AM.

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                              • Scouter99 - you seem to really sure of what McGrath wants. I looked at the picture you posted from Utah, and I see Scouts marching in front of cops. I would assume that all of the parents who drove their boys to the parade knew exactly what they were in for.

                                Yes, there are some exhibits at Pride parades that I don't like (and the Onion does the best commentary: http://www.theonion.com/articles/gay...e-of-gays,351/ ).

                                You like to cherry pick out the worst of the gay community, ignoring others who are quietly gay. Silicon Valley investor Peter Theil, former RNC Chair Ken Mehlman, National Review writer Andrew Sullivan, and plenty of others. I always ask that people don't judge Scouting by the actions of a few blowhard adults, or a few misbehaved youth - can't you do the same for the gay community?

                                Change was NOT happening naturally, until enough photogenic Eagle Scouts were denied Eagle who did not go quietly off the trail. The change started kicking in when units had gay adults helping out who were outed to the Council. McGrath APPEARS to have gone down the path of openly starting a unit to create challenge, and I would assume that his congregation and his parents were all part of that. Without someone challenging, change won't happen. Rosa Parks was not the first one to sit up front, but she was the best one for a national movement.

                                In answer to one of your challenges - I HAVE allowed my sons to spend a weekend skiing with gay adult leader (a minister in this case). I had nothing to fear there. He also wrote my older son's Religion LOR for Eagle (a tough request to make for my son given the circumstances) My concern is the closeted, repressed, married father of two who turns out to be a child molester. Those are the ones we think we can trust, and are later betrayed by if you look at the reports. That is why we have 2-deep, etc.

                                The BSA has had the worst series of PR and Marketing management for over 20 years, combined with blinders on about the change in national attitudes about a lot of issues.
                                - Starting with the Dale decision, they went radio silent after that, fearful of the media. They should have instead tried to increase the positive stories. Local papers still love that, it is the national media that is a challenge sometimes.
                                - They sat on the files, instead of bringing in outside counsel to review them and making their own report. They thought they could hide - they were wrong. This will continue to burn our bank accounts.
                                - They went back and forth on how to deal with gay scouts, and then made their decision halfway. This satisfied some who saw movement, made a few angry who left, and others who felt that was just an appetizer.

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