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Lockheed-Martin cuts ties to Boy Scouts

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Fehler View Post
    So the guys behind Duck Dynasty are entitled to their beliefs, but the guys behind Lockheed-Martin are not.

    Neither is entitled to try to force their personal beliefs on another, especially when children are hurt in the process.

    Phil Robertson did not come out and say that anyone should be compelled to believe as he does. He was asked his personal view of sin in an interview, and he gave it by quoting the Bible. Phil went on to say that he respects all people whether or not their beliefs are in agreement with his own.

    i take the same view. If I were interviewed and asked the same question, I would also give a Biblically based answer. I would expect to not lose my job over it.

    Lockheed is not stating a personal belief. They are trying to force their corporate beliefs on others by hurting kids. It is repulsive.

    Can you imagine if our church based American Heritage Girls troop took the same view? Can you imagine the justified fallout if we turned children away from our troop activities because of their own personal religious beliefs? We do not. Neither does our church. All children are welcome. All adults are welcome for that matter, whether atheist, Hindu, gay, straight, we don't care.

    We do care who teaches as a representative of the troop or the church. That is different. I have no problem telling an adult that if they wish to join our church leadership and serve as a teacher, then they need to agree with the beliefs of our church. I also have no problem being told that myself. I do not expect, as a Protestant, to be allowed to teach Sunday School at my friend's Catholic church. That would be ridiculous. I'm not Catholic. I do expect my children to be welcome at the Catholic church's kids' events, including the Boy Scout troop I hope my son will join, and they are.

    Lockheed is excluding my nine year old son from an educational robotics program next year because Lockheed doesn't approve of the church he attends, the religion of his family, or the fact that we send him to a Scouting organization that aligns with our family's religion. That is wrong. Lockheed is continuing to offer the program to GSUSA, while excluding BSA and AHG.

    I think expecting adults to adhere to a religion's beliefs on lifestyle and faith is perfectly fine if they freely choose as adults to belong to that church or organization. I think telling children they aren't welcome because the group doesn't agree with their faith is wrong.

    The executives at Lockheed are completely entitled to any faith or beliefs they choose. If they want to send money to GLAAD instead of the Scouts because GLAAD is more in line with the executives' values, I think that's fine. That's freedom of speech. I have an equal right to send my donation money to groups that encourage values I think are important. If Lockheed had just stopped sending corporate donations to BSA, they'd have no criticism from me.

    But Lockheed went further. They've told our community in Atlanta that Scouts like my son, and American Heritage Girls like my daughter are not welcome at their educational programs open to the public. That's wrong.

    Bible thumper that I am, I actually agree with the recent BSA membership decision. Our church doesn't expel people who identify as gay, and I don't think the BSA should either. I do think it's fine to insist that people who want to lead in the organization adhere to the lifestyle and beliefs that the organization wishes to promote. I have no problem with saying "no gay leaders", just as I have no problem with saying "no gay Sunday School teachers" at my church. I also have no problem being told by my friend's Catholic church that it would not be appropriate for me to teach in their Sunday School because I am not Catholic. It's ok for people to have different beliefs and lifestyles. That's real tolerance.

    GA Mom


    • Merlyn_LeRoy
      Merlyn_LeRoy commented
      Editing a comment
      So what's your opinion of excluding atheist kids from the BSA?

      L-M is just (finally) following their own stated nondiscrimination policy.

  • #17
    I guess I am seeing the comments here that seem to indicate that Lockheed has the nerve to do this, and how insensitive it is.. I see people who did not appreciate the support but have changed to expecting the support..

    Fact is it is Lockheed's time and money, and Lockheed "owes" BSA nothing.. They did it out of generosity, for public relations, and most probably for a tax break.. They will most likely find a new project to contribute to.. It may benefit children it may not.

    It is sad if they did a great program.. But, if you had an outstanding Scoutmaster or Cubmaster that put on a terrific program and he suddenly they decided they could no longer volunteer their time to the program, would you react the same way.. "The nerve. We depend on them. He is ruining the program the kids depend on.."

    I don't know what type of program the provided, but perhaps some of the best of the program could be run by some of the adult volunteers who have gone to it and know the basics. Same as if a volunteer from the unit steps down, you figure out who in the unit can step up to fill the hole.

    This year it may be a statement, next year it will be a memory.. Life will go on.. Eventually BSA will change. When it happens Lockheed may return, or they may never return. The may think twice about returning to a program who stopped appreciating what they offered and started expecting it to the point that when they moved on, it was demanded they return..


    • GeorgiaMom
      GeorgiaMom commented
      Editing a comment
      There is nothing in my statement that says our community is unappreciative of Lockheed. Quite the contrary. They have given a lot to the community, but they have also demanded and received a lot from our community in the way ot tax breaks, etc.

      No one is saying that Lockheed owes the kids a merit badge program. If they elect to discontinue it completely, that is their right.

      By your argument, if a great Cubmaster had to step down, we'd give him a plaque and thank him, as we did last year. If the Cubmaster said that some kids could come to Scouts if he approved of their religion, and others couldn't, I would object. Your argument has nothing to do with the original post. No one owes kids their time. We all owe kids fair treatment if we choose to give our time.

      I am saying that it's wrong to say some kids can attend and other kids (like my son) can't because of their religion.

      GA Mom

    • moosetracker
      moosetracker commented
      Editing a comment
      Not quite. Lockheed is not putting on the merit badge program only for scouts and their parents who support BSA changing the program for total inclusiveness and telling those with different ideas to go pound sand.

      They are simply stepping out of volunteering for BSA.. Reason is not the issue your scout leader may step down because of job or family commitments or because he had a big disagreement with the committee chair or COR and their vision of where the unit should be headed.. Doesn't matter why the scout leader step down, the time he commiteed should be appreciated, and someone hopefully will be able to step up and fill the gap.. likewise Lockheed volunteered with BSA, they are stepping out.. Doesn't matter why they are moving on, you should appreciate what they have done for the program and thank them for it..

      If it's a merit badge course, I can see them not running it.. That is BSA specific.. A public educational program.. Most likely you could attend as the general public, but perhaps you can not attend as a scout unit in uniform.. This is not really stated in the article, so not sure.. All I know is don't expect them to run a special program geared to a BSA award, merit badge or whatever
      Last edited by moosetracker; 12-27-2013, 05:49 PM.

  • #18
    Glad to see companies still view the BSA policies as discriminatory. I was worried that lifting the ban on gay kids might be viewed as enough of a change to renew financial support. But the fact is that discrimination still exists, and it is good to see that companies like Lockeed still see that.


    • JoeBob
      JoeBob commented
      Editing a comment
      Yep. It really helps the boys.

      Still trying to figure out how.

    • EmberMike
      EmberMike commented
      Editing a comment
      JoeBob it doesn't help the boys to teach them that some kids' parents aren't worthy leaders just because they're gay.

    • JoeBob
      JoeBob commented
      Editing a comment
      Ember, are you holding up the gay lifestyle as a good example for the boys to follow?

      Enrollment numbers are really gonna drop, unless you've figured out a way around that procreation thing...