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  • Obama Care Vs Affordable care act.

    Caught this this morning.....Seems lots of folks Don't like Obamacare and Prefer the Affordable care act instead. Maybe the Prez should look at merging the two......Wait for it Wait for it.


    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504784_1...able-care-act/

  • #2
    Love it. Just another scary indicator about the herd mentality we have in society.

    Comment


    • #3
      Who says We da people aren't sheep to be manipulated by the media and worse yet the hate spewed on facebook

      Comment


      • #4
        I saw that a couple of weeks ago, beautiful. My other favorite was on the Man Show when a Jimmy and Adam set up a booth at a market collecting signatures to end Women's Suffrage.

        Comment


        • #5
          I like kDD, had heard about it a couple of weeks ago.. Don't know if I would quite call them sheeple, more like low level informed at least in the area of politics. You really can't herd them if they don't care.. They just pick there head up long enough to hear one sound bite and assume that is what's going on and investigate no further.. Could be good info, could be bad info, but guarenteed not enough info to really know what's going on..

          KDD, I like the one about the Women's Suffrage, did they catch many people off guard?

          Comment


          • King Ding Dong
            King Ding Dong commented
            Editing a comment
            Oh yeah, lots of people bought it. I couldn't find a link to the original on YouTube, but lots of other people have duplicated it with success. Repeal the 19th amendment.

            Sadly the media has allowed its detractors to label the ACA as Obamacare. It was intended as a derogatory term. As Obama said himself, in a couple of years they won't be calling it that anymore.

        • #6
          Here ya go MT

          http://www.kontraband.com/videos/124...omens-suffrage


          I wonder how many people they had to interview to get that footage. Sadly my lovely wife didn't know that Obama care and the AFCA were the same.

          Comment


          • #7
            The simple fact remains a huge proportion of health care dollars are spent at the end of life. Until we as a nation are willing to address this issue we cannot hope to fix the structural problems. Unfortunately whenever the subject is brought up politicians start screaming "Death Panels!"

            Comment


            • packsaddle
              packsaddle commented
              Editing a comment
              KDD, what do you think is a way to address this issue of 'end of life' costs?

              I have watched many persons confront this issue, including both of my parents...and I guess it will be my turn eventually. To me when I contemplate the prospect of politicians writing legislation about this, it scares me to think that all of us might be subject to rules written by persons who are that thoughtless. To me, the simple solution is to make ALL of those decisions the responsibility of the dying person, or of the immediate responsible family. Government should not weigh in unless there are no relatives or other responsible persons for the dying.

              As I have written in the past, I would terminate Medicare and Medicaid (not to mention Social Security), and in their place offer every person an opportunity to use their resulting larger incomes to purchase whatever insurance they think they need. And then let them live or die in their own chosen manner.

            • King Ding Dong
              King Ding Dong commented
              Editing a comment
              Pack I don't have an answer it is a very complex subject. One that needs discussion and one the right refuses to allow.

          • #8
            If the government can screw up the implementation of the program, you can only imagine what's going to happen when one gets sick.

            Stosh

            Comment


            • moosetracker
              moosetracker commented
              Editing a comment
              Ahhhh... If someone gets sick, the government is out of the picture.. I don't know if you really believe the Republican scare tactics, or just choose to spread it. The commecials of Uncle Sam in the examination room is pure poppycock.

              It is up to the insurance companies and hospitals/doctors and you (to pay the deductable, or items not covered by insurance).. For my state the insurance company would be Blue Cross Blue Shield (Wow, yes, a normal insurance company!!)..

              My state, NH, still has too many republicans in the mix so we didn't organize our own.. Even so, once you use the government web site to enroll, and I would assume or Income State tax forms will change to show you have medical coverage that meets at least the minimum conditions.. Other then that, the government is out of it completely..

            • jblake47
              jblake47 commented
              Editing a comment
              Wait until you see the premiums those companies can now charge and the services you will not longer be able to get because the government is now giving directives to private companies like BCBS as to what they no longer have to pay for.

              AFFORDABLE CARE ACT has nothing to do with the bill you receive once you realize what they no longer provide at a higher deductible and premium. I remember the days of $100 deductibles, now they are talking $1000+. Sure its affordable, $1000 deductible was costing me $325/month 10 years ago. What's it now? $1500 deductible at $185/month - Blue Cross, Blue Shield, subsidized further by my company. If I lost my benefits, that same policy under COBRA would be $370/month. Yep, we've come a long way, Baby. Fortunately I get a better rate through my company and in 2 years I'll simply be able to stick it to the taxpayers if Medicare is still around because 65+ is mandatory single payer. No private insurance company is going to touch it. They'll sell you supplemental to cover what the government doesn't, and that's about it.

              Insurance companies know that once everyone goes to single payer, they'll make a fortune with supplemental because the taxpayers aren't going to be paying much in the first place.

              Stosh

            • moosetracker
              moosetracker commented
              Editing a comment
              The government does not tell insurance companies that they need not cover A. B. or C. if they were covered before by insurance companies without government telling them they must cover them, it's insane to say they will not cover them without government telling them they must cover them..

              Your groups problem is in what the government says must be covered.. Yes, women too will be able to have health care for female related problems.. How awful..

          • #9
            If you like waiting at the DMV you'll love Obummercare....

            Comment


            • moosetracker
              moosetracker commented
              Editing a comment
              Well... If more people are insured, you might have more people going to the Doctors rather then dieing in their homes, or waiting for hours in the emergancy rooms.. That might mean when you call your doctor you may not get a next day appointment but they may have to book you out a little.. Poor baby..

              Easy way to fix that is accept more people into med school in order to put more doctors in the field.

              Acctually my DMV doesn't have a long wait, but since you are trying to use this tactic to scare people who have long waits at Emergancy rooms and at Free health clinics, I don't see how this is going to scare them.. Really again it is simply another fear tactic in search of someone stupid enough to buy it.. Sold any bridges lately?

            • King Ding Dong
              King Ding Dong commented
              Editing a comment
              Whatever you think will happen to wait times.....at least you will have to opportunity to receive non urgent care.

              If you think there is a better way to provide care it needs to be proposed and debated. Where were the proposals from the other side ? What did Bush propose ?

              Stripping the ACA of funding streams is not fixing it. If there are plans to fix shortfalls, let's hear them ?

              Can you honestly say the system "works" ?

              I am open to limiting health care options for those less able to afford premium care. Anytime you bring that up someone on the right starts yelling "Death Panels!"

          • #10
            I would have preferred an honest proposal: a government insurance program for those who WANTED to buy insurance but could not in the private market. If they could not afford to do so there would be a tax-supported subsidy, like other programs.

            Instead, we have a program where we are forced to buy something whether we want it or not. And no this is not like auto insurance. I do not want to go down this well-argued road any more.

            What we have is a program that 1) will increase demand for a service 2) does nothing to increase the supply of a service, and 3) disincentives employers to provide full time employment. Anyone with a modicum of economic insight knows this is a recipe for disaster if he is honest with himself.

            All you need to see about how well obummercare will work is in how well the enrollment process has been working thus far. If you think it's hard to sign up for a plan--a simple process that thousands of insurance companies have mastered--wait until you try to actually get a claim paid or see your doctor. Government does little, if anything, better than the private sector. So, welcome to the future of your health care.

            Comment


            • moosetracker
              moosetracker commented
              Editing a comment
              "If you think it's hard to sign up for a plan--a simple process that thousands of insurance companies have mastered--wait until you try to actually get a claim paid or see your doctor"

              Again at that stage the government is out of the picture.. Are you saying BlueCross Blue Shield can't a process a person that comes to them through ACA rather then through Mac's greasy spoon?.. Once my employer enrolls me on their company health plan, they are out of the picture, they have no right to know what I go to my doctor about, let alone approve or disapprove of it.

              Sorry you and jblake shouldn't be so sour and grumpy.. After all your hero Ted Cruz says you acheived an amazing victory.. So drink your flavor-aid and all will be alright.

          • #11
            s most of you know, I work in healthcare. No, I am not a MD, DO, PA, ad nauseum, but just one of the behind the folks who provides the info for those folks to make the best decision. I also sit on a committee and get to hear some of the paperwork and BS these folks have to deal with.

            In regards to ACA, Obamacare, whatever the heck you want to call it, because of the way it was written, so much power and decision making was given to SecHHS, that folks whose job it is to deal with legal implictaions and healthcare could not interpret it because part of the law were still being written AFTER congress passed it. Large sections of the bill related to HHS guidelines which were not out. Even the most liberal member of the committee, the one who was a cheerleader for Obama's healthcare reform is now totally opposed to it because it is hurting healthcare.

            It really impacts the small, independent non- profit hospitals that are sometimes are the only hospital in an area. My local paper reports that the hospital in my town is in the process of merging with a large, for-profit hospital chain because in reviewing ACA, they do not think they could survive. Another hospital in another town has come to the same conclusion: they cannot survive alone. They are looking to getting some type of partnership set up. I can tell you from some research I've done for others that all the different reinbursement plans the governement has set up are just ways for them to not pay for services provided. Or there are some legal issues that were not thought about when the ideas popped up.


            As for physicians, they are not happy. It was bad enough with Medicare/aid, but it now will get worse. Why will healthcare get worse? 1) More paperwork to deal with. That entails more time away from patients for the MDs, more staff to be hired to transcribe notes, file records, submit insurance claims, and fight insurance companies. more overhead means higher prices. Best example I can give is the conversation I had with one MD about changes in medicine: how he started a practice with just his partner, a nurse for each, and a receptionist for a total of 5 people. Now he and his partner employ a staff of 32, mostly to deal with all the paperwork. he is looking forward to the day he is bought out and can retire.

            2) More patients will be added without resourcess for folks in the medical field, especially primary or family medicine. As it is right now there are not enough MDs and DOs to handle healthcare. That's why states are looking at extending the scope of practice of PAs, RNPs, and PharmDs. so that these folks can provide healthcare. Just look at where the majority of the money for programs like NURSECORPS is going: folks working on the RNP, other advanced practice nursing degrees (CRNA, etc), and nurse educators ( real problem there: not enough nursing instructors to cover demand).

            But once they get the degrees and practice, then the world slaps them in the face. Low reimbursement rates, paperwork driving up overhead, fighting to get reimbursed,etc. and that is just with medical insurance and medicare/aid. Why do you think many offices are now not accepting Medicare/aid: because it does not cover the cost of the actual care! Kinda sad when a plumber can make more money take home pay than a family practice doctor. Kinda sad when you read the survey results and more and more MDs are disgusted with medicine, specifically the bureaucracy of it, that wish if they knew before going to med school what they know they know now, they would not do it.

            Comment


            • moosetracker
              moosetracker commented
              Editing a comment
              Your groups problem is that they count anything said by anyone that is not total praise for ACA means they are opposed to it.. Find 1 physician that is against it, all physicians are against it.. The union had a problem with one item in the ACA, the union is totally against it.. So and So says this part could stand improvement, well So and So is totally against ACA.. It is really funny when the Republican make these claims and then the person or group who they say is against it, comes out to discount it and say the GOP is totally misrepresenting their position.. I guess I tend to believe the person or group themselves rather the political retoric from the GOP..

              I worked with a group in the re-election of Obama campaign.. Many, Many, Many were people in the health field who felt the ACA could use some improvements, but this was a great starting point in the right direction.

            • packsaddle
              packsaddle commented
              Editing a comment
              Eagle92, I'm getting the feeling that you see a problem with 'for-profit' health care. Am I correct?

          • #12
            Moose,

            With all due respect, none, repeat, NONE (emphasis, not shouting at you) of the doctors that I have had contact with are in favor of the current law, including one who was promoting healthcare reform.

            I too know folks who volunteered for the Obama campaign who work in healthcare, one of whom was a very active promoter of healthcare reform, I would call her the biggest cheerleader for ACA prior to it being enacted, Again once it got enacted and she actually saw the nuts and bolts of it and how it is now affecting healthcare in the exact opposite way that it was suppose to help, she is not a happy camper.

            Comment


            • packsaddle
              packsaddle commented
              Editing a comment
              I am in a dept that has a large number of undergraduates (more than 1000), most of whom are pre-med of some sort. I get to advise them frequently and I am constantly struck by the dichotomy of motivations to go into medicine. The vast majority are in it 'for the money'. If this is typical for the rest of medicine, I can understand why they are disillusioned with the real world. Like I've written elsewhere, abolish Medicare and Medicaid and let people make their own decisions...and the market will make the needed adjustments.

          • #13
            Moose must be an Egyptian because she lives in the state of de-nile. Thank you, I'll be here all week...

            Comment


            • moosetracker
              moosetracker commented
              Editing a comment
              that's funny when you support a group that haven't been right one single time in their political retoric

              How's Bengazi doing? What happen to all that sure fire evidence on Obama or Clinton?
              How about the IRS scandel? Again definate evidance it went straight to the top.
              Why isn't Romney President? All your polls showed him winning by a landslide.
              Now we have this government shut down and threating of a debt default. America is with you? Total victory for your side?.. Really?? Meanwhile the ACA went up in popularity in the polls, Republicans tanked to their lowest in history for since polling started, And 70% of Americans thought the GOP attempt to kill the ACA by shutting down the government was the wrong way to go..
              Republicans are more united then ever.. Really? I have not heard so much discussion of the Republican party seperating into two distinct parties since the tea party was formed by republicans on Capital hill and big supporters of the Republican party..

          • #14
            A boss of mine had a mantra "bring me solutions, not problems." I dont think he would have been happy if my solution was to fire everyone and shut down the company.

            Comment


            • Nike
              Nike commented
              Editing a comment
              Sometimes that is the best solution, though. (Obviously, not here.)

          • #15
            Boy that got ugly quick....I posted it up just to show how uniformed the Facebook american people have become. Before you start lining up the old folks for euthanasia..... what about the millions we send on the pre mature baby's??????

            Comment

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