Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Shutdown ?

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by moosetracker View Post
    Hopefully your teaparty buddies in the house watch the same right-wing talk radio as you and drink the kool-aide.
    Actually, I don't spend a lot of time "watching" radio of any kind. I just don't find "watching" the radio all that interesting. But, to each his or her own.

    Comment


    • moosetracker
      moosetracker commented
      Editing a comment
      You mean you walk or drive around in you little tinfoil hat, while listening?.. Fine by me.. Your still soaking in the rhetoric.. What is weird is that you guys can listen to all the conflicting statements being put out and not see the inconsistencies..

      "Where not doing this, the Democrats are".
      "A government shutdown might be good for the country. Show people they don't need government".
      "We're not going to be disrespected... we have to get something out of this. And I don't even know what that is."
      "“We are very excited…it is exactly what we wanted.”
      "We keep passing Amendment bills to open up sections of the government, Senate doesn't pass them."
      "85% of the government is up and running."

      Their statements cancel out the other statements that they are making.. Yet you guys believe every single one of them..

  • #32
    Originally posted by Peregrinator View Post
    There are probably very few Democrats who are completely unwilling to compromise on ACA - are they, too, "extremist ideologues"?
    Why should the Democrats compromise on a bill that was already written into law? It's a done deal. That's like the Patriots trying to negotiate the Superbowl victory after they were beaten by the Giants. Game over, move on. The majority of Americans support the ACA and want the shutdown to end. I'm sorry that a minority of people disagree but that's how democracy works.

    Originally posted by Peregrinator View Post
    Again, that the ACA is the law of the land, for now, does not at all imply that it can't be debated, defunded, revoked, etc. It wasn't that long ago (1974-1995) that a 55 mph speed limit was "the law of the land."
    ​41 House bills to repeal ACA have been debated, voted on and defeated. That's democracy in action. They can revisit repealing ACA in a new Congress/Senate/President in a few years but it's extremely shortsighted and foolish to think that Obama will sign a bill that would make major changes to his presidency's keystone legislation. The Republicans should stop wasting everyone's time.

    Comment


    • jblake47
      jblake47 commented
      Editing a comment
      Prohibition was ruled Constitutional, but the people repealed it. I can't change history. It's a fact and it was before my time so I didn't have anything to do with it, and Bush wasn't born yet, so he didn't either.

      Stosh

    • moosetracker
      moosetracker commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes but it was enacted in order to see if it was beneficial or not. It was not stopped because someone whipped a group of people into a frenzy with scare-tactics.

    • jblake47
      jblake47 commented
      Editing a comment
      OR.... it isn't producing what was promised and it isn't just a few who got whipped into a frenzy, but everyone getting a hit in the pocketbook, losing their benefits/hours, and even some losing their promised keep-your-doctor-of-choice and ending up with a high premium, no benefits, government sponsored/directed process. People are beginning to see the "benefits" of the program and they aren't really all that happy, but egos and politics don't allow for any "maybe this wasn't such a good idea" kinds of discussions to either correct or remove the problem.

      Stosh

  • #33
    Tidbit:

    Obama in 2006: "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure."
    At that time the National Debt was a mere $9 trillion. Have you heard any Dem say by how much they want to increase the debt ceiling? One trillion dollars to get them through the 2014 election cycle (I rounded up from $988 Billion...). Are we going to let Obama double the debt before he's out of office? ($9T in 2006, $14.4T in 2013, add $1T for 2014, $1T for 2015...)

    Frustration:
    This is like arguing with a teenager who refuses to believe that their bank account is overdrawn: "I can't be out of money! I have more checks!"
    Liberal members of the media, congress, and this forum are all relying on emotion to make their argument. All emotion and personal vitriol, no ability to face facts.
    "It's never been done before!" Wrong - 27 times since 1976.
    "Federal workers are going without a paycheck!" Yes. I feel bad for them. But many of them really need to start looking at the private sector and adjusting their long range plans. Hopefully they're smart enough to realize that, mathematically, the Fed cannot keep spending money at the current pace. There are not enough rich people to punish to pay the bills.

    To my fellow conservatives: I'm pretty sure that we're not going to change any minds in here. They're not thinking.
    Last edited by JoeBob; 10-06-2013, 11:47 AM.

    Comment


    • Brewmeister
      Brewmeister commented
      Editing a comment
      Haven't you figured out that they will never stop blaming the previous administration (or, for that matter, anyone and everyone else) for the problems they create or perpetuate?

    • DigitalScout
      DigitalScout commented
      Editing a comment
      I agree with JoeBob that deficit spending in general is bad if you are a consumer. But nearly all businesses take on debt if they can borrow money to make more money. Same with the government: if you can increase per capita GDP by $1.25 by borrowing $1, that's a wise investment. Investing in healthcare and renewable energy will eventually increase the per capita GDP so those are a good investments.

      A bad practice is borrowing money for a negative return like the Iraq war which did nothing to protect our security, or allies or our overseas investments (i.e., oil) and added $2.2 trillion to the debt.

      By the way, I'm not saying that government should be run like a business per se because it is unique in that they own the printing presses. The US government can carry debt and not worry about paying their obligations as long as you have low inflation (currently less than 2%) and low 30-yr T-bill rates (3.7%).

    • jblake47
      jblake47 commented
      Editing a comment
      I have no idea what school of economics one goes to in order to think deficit spending and the subsequent interest expense is a good thing. If the government hadn't borrowed in the first place, all that interest expense would be going to helping people and not the lenders. With $16 trillion in debt, I'm thinking the interest portion of the budget could be funding a lot of food stamps, insurance and other direct assistance to the citizens instead of lining the pockets of rich lenders.

      People today are in debt to big business/investment/banking companies and don't have money for food, clothing and shelter. The interest they pay could be buying things like, say, food, clothing and shelter. I own two homes, four cars and don't owe a penny to anyone. ALL my paycheck is available to buy whatever I can afford. I learned a long time ago, the government doesn't lead by example. If I owed $16 trillion in debt, I'd be in jail. There might just be a lesson in all of that.

      Stosh

  • #34
    When congress "passes" the most sweeping social welfare program in a generation by parliamentary maneuver and with NO bipartisan support, it should be no surprise that the peoples' house would lead a revolt.

    Comment


    • moosetracker
      moosetracker commented
      Editing a comment
      I - know - what - you - are - saying -. -- I - am - just - saying - it - is - inappropriately - named..

    • DigitalScout
      DigitalScout commented
      Editing a comment
      A clear majority of Americans support the ACA/Obamacare. The repeal of the ACA was one the main Republican planks of the 2012 election. Yet Obama was reelected by a wide margin, the Republicans lost 2 seats in the Senate and 13 seats in the House. Americans aren't digging what the Republicans are selling.

      Now the Republicans stand a good chance of losing their majority in the House in the 2014 election because of their obstructionism and government shutdown. They are just slipping further into irrelevance.

    • Papadaddy
      Papadaddy commented
      Editing a comment
      Obama was re-elected because the low-information Democrat party base thought they were getting "free" healthcare at the expense of the "rich". Those who are reasonable alert (like the Union bosses) are now realizing they were sold a bill of goods and have demanded exemptions, which Barry gladly granted. But when the "people" via their elected representatives demand the same consideration, or at least a delay, we are shut down saying "it's the law of the land, get over it."

  • #35
    Vindictive Alert: Not only is Mt. Rushmore shut down, they are closing the shoulders along public highways with traffic cones to make sure no one can pull over and take pictures. One has to wonder how far such political hatred can go.

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/10...ore-seriously/

    Stosh

    Comment


    • Brewmeister
      Brewmeister commented
      Editing a comment
      This petulant behavior is not surprising from a regime that's closed access not only to open-air monuments that require no staff, but also to the Grand Canyon and the Atlantic Ocean... Maybe they'll buy a big tarp to put over Mt. Rushmore too?

  • #36
    To try to make this a bit more Scouting again (a few of you seem to forgetting the Oath and Law in your interactions)...

    If we want to balance the books, then you have to either increase revenue or cut spending. If you want to play with spending, CATO has put some information on a site:

    http://www.downsizinggovernment.org

    This could be a good exercise for Scouts in Cit Nation - what would you cut? Make them approach each cut from an Oath and Law perspective along with the Constitution.

    A flip side is to ask them what things could the government do? For this debate, do they agree that there is a problem with people who have no access to affordable healthcare? How would they solve that? What is the obligation of the nation? Help educate the discussion. Show them the historical levels of deficit and debt (and PLEASE make sure that they know the difference).

    http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/...eficit_history

    Then you can talk about historical taxation levels, and you can teach them about the EFFECTIVE tax rate (which is vastly different from initial rate). Lots of information there:

    http://strata.oreilly.com/2013/01/us...alization.html

    If you want to get deeper, you can overlay these numbers with party control of the House, Senate and Presidency and try to find a pattern, anywhere.

    Comment


    • DigitalScout
      DigitalScout commented
      Editing a comment
      Rick - a Univ. of Penn. study showed that "that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun." 4.5 times more likely is 350%. I incorrectly stated 550% in my original post but I've corrected it. Univ. of Penn. study: http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_...ession-safety/

    • jblake47
      jblake47 commented
      Editing a comment
      And that leads to the question of what is the % chances of an assailant being shot by an armed victim vs. un-armed victim? I'm not a statistician, but I'm going to take a wild guess here and say the odds of an assailant being shot by an armed victim is a lot higher than being shot by a victim with no gun.

      Stosh

    • DigitalScout
      DigitalScout commented
      Editing a comment
      Most crimes by far are property crimes (burglary, larceny, robbery and theft). Police advise people to obey the assailant and not resist to avoid getting hurt. People who get hurt or killed are those that resist. If being robbed, chances are the criminal is high on drugs, has impaired judgement, and heightened senses from adrenaline (e.g., an itchy trigger finger). So provoking them during a robbery will likely result in the victim being shot, stabbed or otherwise injured. If a robber sees or finds a gun on the victim, he will feel threatened and may do harm to the victim.

      There are very few scenarios that an armed victim will have any tactical advantage during a robbery. In just about all situations, the robber or robbers will have the upperhand and a victim having a gun greatly increases the chances of the encounter ending badly for the victim.

  • #37
    Just read this:
    AFN Back On The Air!

    The American Forces Network (AFN) is working to restore full television service to the overseas audience within the next 24 hours.

    As a result of civilian workers being allowed to return to work at the AFN Broadcast Center in California, plans are underway to launch AFN|sports, AFN|family, AFN|xtra and AFN|movie today (Monday, October 07). The programs required for AFN|sports are mostly live and, as a result, are immediately available; the inventory for AFN|movie and AFN|family exists on servers at the AFN BC and is also easily obtainable now that the workforce has returned.
    The remaining channels, AFN|spectrum and the two AFN|prime channels (Pacific and Atlantic), will require a bit more time to restart since the programs have to be recorded from Stateside feeds and prepared for rebroadcast in the appropriate time slots. Service of these channels should be up and running by prime time Tuesday (Japan Korea Time and Central European Time).
    AFN|news has remained on the air since the furlough began on October 02.


    So the cold war and the communists where never ever able to shut off AFN, even way behind the iron curtin. Only Congress was competent enough to do it ...

    Comment


    • packsaddle
      packsaddle commented
      Editing a comment
      Papadaddy, I had a full career as a civilian employee of the DOD as well. I remember several of these events so I sympathize. But I quit and took another position (I was on FERS, not CSRS, so I could 'take it with me'). I'm sorry that you're feeling the burden of this occasion.

    • Twocubdad
      Twocubdad commented
      Editing a comment
      I had to listen to a retired DOD guy carp about all the government folks missing work after having four-day work weeks due to sequestration. Makes me wonder how many of them missed paychecks over the past five years. I know many, many folks who would have been grateful to have work four days straight.

    • berliner
      berliner commented
      Editing a comment
      Politicians taking it out on the back of the people is not a US phenomenon, same in the EU (albeit a bit different of course).

  • #38
    Unconditional Surrender by Tuesday. Except they can keep their Emperor.

    Comment


    • King Ding Dong
      King Ding Dong commented
      Editing a comment
      Opps. Unconditional Surrender by Wednesday !

  • #39
    Apparently there is a lot of bickering going on inside Congress between the radical "repeal-Obamacare" Republicans and the less radical "delay-Obamacare" Republicans. The "repeal-Obamacare" faction is accusing the "delay-Obamacare" faction of going along with the shutdown just to raise election campaign money from donors and are not true conservatives (i.e., RINOs, or Republicans in Name Only) because they want delay, not repeal.

    Comment


    • #40
      I was thinking of putting a sign on my door for the trick-or-treaters that read, "Due to the Government Shut-Down this house has no candy," but I think this will work better.

      Comment


      • DigitalScout
        DigitalScout commented
        Editing a comment
        Papadaddy - that will work as well as asking those in favor of a war to contribute as they see fit.

      • JoeBob
        JoeBob commented
        Editing a comment
        That would have worked well during the revolution and the WWs... Would we have a more pronounced British accent, or Deutsche?

      • DigitalScout
        DigitalScout commented
        Editing a comment
        My point exactly, JoeBob.

    • #41
      "On Sunday, protesting the barricades placed at memorials around Washington D.C. by the vindictive Obama administration, veterans removed the barricades and proceeded to take them to the White House."

      http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...medium=twitter

      Comment


      • #42
        Here is the latest from FB regarding our so called leadership in the house. This is simply bizarre . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Jd-iaYLO1A&sns=tw
        Last edited by skeptic; 10-14-2013, 03:22 PM.

        Comment


        • skeptic
          skeptic commented
          Editing a comment
          You mean with the two R reps and Palin joining to complain about "using" veterans by some, even as they are grandstanding? Okay.

        • skeptic
          skeptic commented
          Editing a comment
          Think I got it right now JB. Although the pols do try to sell us on a lot of odd stuff.

        • moosetracker
          moosetracker commented
          Editing a comment
          I heard quite a few days ago that this was the case, but did not know if this was rumor or not, as the Democrats were not going to the airwaves with it.. Perhaps they needed to bring it to the floor and challenge it like this before they could start publically complaining about it?.. Expect it to get a lot of airtime during next years election cycle..

      • #43
        The Senate has a new bill worked out by Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell..

        this is common sense, so Although it is initiated out of the Senate I think it will have the 60 votes to jump over Ted Cruz's Filibuster, and the Republicans of the house will truly own the fallout of the Nation defaulting on it's debt along with the shut down of the Government if they do not pass it.. The Republicans will have a chance to save face, but really have gained nothing except totally tanking in the polls from taking the country hostage.. If the house rejects it the Republicans will own the fallout of defaulting on our debt and doubly own the government shutdown, and will never crawl out of the hole they put themselves into.. Their party will be toast.
        Repubs can no longer keep harping on "the President wont negotiate", even though the President said he will but only once they release the hostages.. Because, this bill lays out clearly that both sides will negotiate during the time of the extensions. After that we have two minor changes to the Health Care law, so the Repubs have got something small on Health Care, But since the Democrats got something to, it is not a victory from their hostage taking.. The Repubs get the Budget at the Sequester levels, but Dems get the extension only past the new year (Jan 15 for government spending, Feb 15 for debt limit) so that a) Obamacare is totally enacted when the extension runs out and b) Dems have a chance to get some of the Sequestered items back into the budget during the negotiations (They did not want 6 weeks as it was too short didn't get past the enactment of Obamacare and if negotiations broke down again would put this debacle around the holiday shopping season.. But, 6 months were too long with the budget at Sequester levels.)
        If the house does not bring it up for a vote, the party of Repubs is a footnote in history, taking the teaparty with them.

        Just hearing the proposal gives me a confidence that I haven't had until now, that there is a way out.. At least until January & February..

        Now everyone can go back to JoeBob's silly little rant of although the Repubs shut down the government, how dare the Democrats not let the Repubs pick and choose what parts of government the Repubs want to pay for so that they can just hold hostage the parts of Government that the Democrats care about.

        Comment


        • #44
          99.999999% of what comes out of Washington is crap anyway. It doesn't make a whole lot of difference who's at fault, ALL of Washington is at fault. Once people figure this out, either they will be replaced by competent people or everything will go down the drain. The US is not exempt from what befalls every "empire" this world has ever experienced. The handwriting is on the wall. Time to pay attention and read it carefully. Everyone is pointing out the problems, no one is fixing them.

          Stosh

          Comment


          • jblake47
            jblake47 commented
            Editing a comment
            I don't know who coined that phrase, but it is sooooo true!

          • King Ding Dong
            King Ding Dong commented
            Editing a comment
            Hey Brew, what happened in the 96 House elections ?

          • Brewmeister
            Brewmeister commented
            Editing a comment
            I was around then...The conditions are much different now than 17 years ago.

        • #45
          Well, one of my units is scrambling now to find a replacement site to camp at this weekend. All state places are full, leaving two BSA sites possibly since the National Parks are all closed

          Comment


          • packsaddle
            packsaddle commented
            Editing a comment
            Horizon, there's plenty of space in National Forests. Find a trail and go make your own campground.
        Working...
        X