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  • #16
    Well, yes, the issue is settled -- for now. That the ACA is law does not at all mean that there cannot be further debate on the subject.

    Comment


    • #17
      I lived through a lot of presidental terms and I'm pretty up to speed to what's really going on in Washington now. My biggest concern for our countrie's future is that the next generation will believe that Obama's behavior is presidental. I've worked for the government for many years and I've never read such a immature letter like the one Obama sent me yesterday. No way would a responsible media ever let any president ever get away with it. I am really concerned for the country my kids are being stuck with. Barry
      Last edited by Eagledad; 10-02-2013, 03:04 PM.

      Comment


      • moosetracker
        moosetracker commented
        Editing a comment
        Wow!! your on such personal terms as to receive personal letters from the POTUS !!?? Wow.. I am impressed, especially as you don't seem to be on such friendly terms with him. (Note the sarcasm.)

      • King Ding Dong
        King Ding Dong commented
        Editing a comment
        I would like to see that immature letter from the President. Bring it on!!!
        Last edited by King Ding Dong; 10-03-2013, 02:28 PM.

    • #18
      If all non-essential personal are furloughed, what are the congressmen still doing in the capital?

      It is not an issue of Dems and Reps, it's a issue of people and government. Government (both parties) are more worried about themselves than the people the are supposed to be representing. Like the WWII vets, the day's coming when the people will step in and totally ignore the governmental barriers.

      Stosh

      Comment


      • #19
        The NY Time reports ... "56 percent of Americans say they prefer that Congress uphold what has become known as Obamacare and make it work as well as possible. Just 38 percent of the public wants Congress to stop the law by cutting off funding."

        So about 50% more support Obamacare than are against it.

        Comment


        • jblake47
          jblake47 commented
          Editing a comment
          Let 56% have Obamacare, and leave the other 38% alone to do what they want. It's supposed to be a free country. Oh, yeah, the government isn't supposed to compete with private industry. Oh, that's what the Constitution says, and that's no longer relevant in today's political arena.

          We had one civil war to break the bondage of the plantation owners, another to break the bondage of big business, so why not yet another to break the bondage of the government? Oh, we did that back in 1776. Those that don't learn from history are destined to relive it.

          Stosh

        • dcsimmons
          dcsimmons commented
          Editing a comment
          Silly Stosh. Uncle Sam only has your best interests at heart. As soon as they've crushed the private insurance business there won't be any competition from the Government.

        • DigitalScout
          DigitalScout commented
          Editing a comment
          Stosh - Maybe I don't understand your comment but the ACA/Obamacare insurance is priced and delivered by private industry insurance companies.

          I checked out the ACA/Obamacare website for California and I have to say, for the first time I can actually understand medical insurance plans. They did a really good job showing you exactly what you pay for doctor copay, emergency copay, medicine copay, deductibles, etc.

      • #20
        After years of claiming they want the Government to operate more like a private corporation the Republicans have finally succeeded. During hard times they have shut-down; Employees were laid off. And thanks to the provision that everyone else will have to work without pay government employees who still have jobs now qualify for welfare because their households now live in poverty despite the fact that they are working; just like their counterparts employed at Wal~Mart. Congratulations! I can't imagine many states will be happy about picking up the tab and having to provide the same benefits to government employees that they have been forced to provide to other low-income households that are employed by major corporations. If Major corporations actually paid taxes, the government might have the money to keep their doors open, but why expect a corporation to contribute to society? And now that the Republicans have gotten their wish of government acting like a corporation there is no reason for the government to act responsibly and contribute to society either. ​http://www.ctj.org/corporatetaxdodge...gersReport.pdf

        Comment


        • jblake47
          jblake47 commented
          Editing a comment
          I'm sure the States would welcome the feds getting out of their business. Anything not specifically mentioned in the Constitution is the responsibility of the States. Department of Education could disappear and it would be a good thing and save a ton of money. The IRS could disappear and it would be a good thing and save a ton of money. I could go on about a lot of other wasteful, duplicated federal agencies, but no one likes long posts.

          Stosh

      • #21
        The insurance company take over doesn't bother me as much as the healthcare industry that bothers me the most. They have their hands in my birth issues, my retirement, my medicare, and now they decide on whether or not I live or die. Heck, they give me cell phones, a "paycheck" and even sell me cars. Why would anyone not want to come to America, everything's free.

        After 60+ years, it is now evident that conceal carry is the only freedom that they haven't taken totally away. Need to check it out quick before they do.

        I wonder with all these statistics floating around, how many of the colonists were pro-King George and now many were pro-revolution? (Like it made any real difference)


        Stosh

        Comment


        • moosetracker
          moosetracker commented
          Editing a comment
          It is also ironic the politcal ideology who loves to get between a doctor and a patient relationship and mandate the doctor tell womens scientifically inacurate lies to scare the women, force unnecessary waiting periods, and force unnecessary procedures by writing laws about it seem to think it's awful for government to require you health care, THROUGH A NORMAL INSURANCE AGENCY..

          Does your state force you to have car insurance? Does that mean the come between you and your insurance agency when you make a claim?

        • jblake47
          jblake47 commented
          Editing a comment
          I think it's important that everyone have insurance. Those that can't get it because of a pre-existing condition or finances should get help. I don't even have a problem with that. But that's a simple fix that ACA doesn't address. They are going for a huge piece of the pie and EVERYONE gets ripped and no one gets helped. That's the normal solution when the feds get their fingers in the pot.

          Stosh

        • moosetracker
          moosetracker commented
          Editing a comment
          All you need is insurance, you don't need to get it through the ACA.. So get it through another insurance agency..

      • #22
        Maybe if the other side of the aisle (which I still register with) would have made a proposal to help cover the uninsured, and helped small businesses with huge costs, and noticed the people going bankrupt due to health care costs, and broken the AMA monopoly on new physician training centers, etc. we wouldn't have ended up here. Or, perhaps, they could have gone with the Heritage Foundation / American Enterprise proposal that Governor Mitt Romney established in Massachusetts. Ignoring the root problem is not helping things.

        Comment


        • King Ding Dong
          King Ding Dong commented
          Editing a comment
          It sure would have been nice if the Republicans had put forth such a plan when they had control. I can't seem to remember that ever happening.

        • Papadaddy
          Papadaddy commented
          Editing a comment
          Could it be that those without insurance chose not to be covered? That's most of my heartburn with the ACA...being forced under penalty of law to purchase a commercial product. I find it ironic that the Government forces people to buy insurance with one hand and with the other continues to hand out support to tobacco farmers.

        • jblake47
          jblake47 commented
          Editing a comment
          KDD - it was, that's where I got the idea from. It sounded really good at the time which is why it didn't go anywhere.

          Stosh

      • #23
        Stosh, now, you aren't really saying the ACA creates economic incentives for employers to cut people's work hours and to reduce hiring are you? Next thing you know you're going to tell me the $63/head soon to be $300+/head tax companies now have to pay on the number of individuals insured in their plans isn't really going to fund the program and will never go away. Or that businesses might just drop their plans all together! The President promised I'd keep my plan and my doctors.

        Comment


        • jblake47
          jblake47 commented
          Editing a comment
          The president promised you'd keep your plan and doctors. Now, with that being said, how many political and/or campaign promises have ever been kept? So, once you calm down and accept that premise, then remember YOUR COMPANY made no such promises. If it's cheaper to dump you on the government, guess what! Yep, in a heartbeat, if you still have one.

          Stosh

      • #24
        1- How or when is the US gonna stop borrowing money to spend on non-essential services? Maybe this shutdown will highlight just how much we can live without. Eventually our money is gonna be worthless, so the sooner we face that we're spending too much; the better chance we have that our republic will survive. Our grandchildren already have a big enough bill to pay.

        2- The Dems had two years, 08-10, when they controlled the government. The electorate became so alarmed at their free spending ways that they elected Repubs to the house in 10 and again in 12. The house is the division that spends money. So, yes, elections have consequences. For the Dems to now refuse to negotiate with the body that is constitutionally in charge of the purse strings is a facetious tantrum, devoid of logic, enabled by a biased media.

        Comment


        • JoeBob
          JoeBob commented
          Editing a comment
          No my dear Moosetracker, I do know what's going on. It's that slow drawl in the way I talk that has convinced you that I'm stupid. We Southerners have been using that camouflage for many years to take advantage of those that underestimate us..

          I don't have time to hunt down the actual quote, but roughly paraphrasing the Dem talking head that said it: "The battle over raising the debt ceiling coming up in two weeks. We may as well have that fight now." And to quote Obama "I will not negotiate with Republicans over paying our nation's debt."

          All this from a man who hasn't signed a budget in five years. How many votes did Obama's last budget proposal get in the senate? One?

          Don't let the calm in this echo chamber convince you that the US can continue to spend until our debt is twice our GDP. How do you propose we ever wean congress from the borrowing teat?

        • moosetracker
          moosetracker commented
          Editing a comment
          If so then that comment about asking for an extension on the debt ceiling made absolutely no sense at all.. Because no one has done that. The extension is due to not passing a budget and not about the debt ceiling at all.. And no one is asking for it, it is already in play and the Republicans think they should be paid a ransom for it, and don't want to move on to either of the real fights until they get that ransom.

          You also missed the last few speeches by the president and the comments from Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid after they walked out of the meeting between the leaders on Wednesday night.. Talk was all about sitting down and discussing and negotiating on the real Debt ceiling and Budget, once the house bring the clean CR for the 6 weeks extension to the floor where everyone already knows it will pass. The Republican lead house refuses to do that.

          They will not negotiate with a gun to their head.. They will only negotiate when the house stop using the US as a hostage. In the real negotiations Republicans can discuss whatever they want Obamacare, the pipeline, the birds and the bees... whatever they want..

        • Brewmeister
          Brewmeister commented
          Editing a comment
          People like Moose believe we can just keep harvesting the Magical Money Tree.

      • #25
        FYI on the jokes about essential vs non-essential, my company operates that way. I have had to lay off people who weren't essential - I could keep the doors open for less, I just could not grow. Once the economy recovered, we added those people back who were necessary for long-term growth.

        As for the government, the Office of Management and Budget defines essential vs. non-essential this way:

        1.) Provide for the national security, including the conduct of foreign relations essential to the national security or the safety of life and property.

        2.) Provide for benefit payments and the performance of contract obligations under no-year or multi-year or other funds remaining available for those purposes.

        3.) Conduct essential activities to the extent that they protect life and property, including:

        Medical care of inpatients and emergency outpatient care.
        Activities essential to ensure continued public health and safety, including safe use of food and drugs and safe use of hazardous materials.
        The continuance of air traffic control and other transportation safety functions and the protection of transport property.
        Border and coastal protection and surveillance.
        Protection of Federal lands, buildings, waterways, equipment and other property owned by the United States.
        Care of prisoners and other persons in the custody of the United States.
        Law enforcement and criminal investigations.
        Emergency and disaster assistance.
        Activities essential to the preservation of the essential elements of the money and banking system of the United States, including borrowing and tax collection activities of the Treasury.
        Activities that ensure production of power and maintenance of the power distribution system.
        Activities necessary to maintain protection of research property.

        Comment


        • dcsimmons
          dcsimmons commented
          Editing a comment
          Hmmm, those sound a lot like powers specifically enumerated to the Federal Government and not otherwise left to the states.............

        • Papadaddy
          Papadaddy commented
          Editing a comment
          My job fits the definition of "health and safety" and "safe use of hazardous materials." I was not exempt. But apparently, the National Park service rangers guarding the WWII memorial from invading hordes of veterans in wheelchairs were considered "essential".

      • #26
        There are some extremists who WANT the US to fall into financial ruin. It's their sick way of proving that they are right for hording guns, buying up gold, building underground bunkers and stocking up on 20-year supply of high-energy biscuits. There were a lot of preppers and tea party folk who were very upset that the end of the world didn't come in 2009-11 so they see this as their last shot at it. If the apocalypse never happens, they look like a bunch of fools and who wants to look like a fool. It's like those cults who predict the end of the world and when it doesn't happen they kill themselves.

        Comment


        • Papadaddy
          Papadaddy commented
          Editing a comment
          But at least we can spell "hoarding"...if you think the apocalypse hasn't started, you're not paying attention. Just keep on voting for "hope and change"...I can guarantee you are going to see changes.

        • moosetracker
          moosetracker commented
          Editing a comment
          Good news Pappadaddy (not great as great news was that you were not only getting back pay, but also that you would start receiving your checks again).. I know that the Republicans also supported this, but I also know there are a lot of teaparty voters who will be furious with this.. I heard one very nasty person voicing their opinion that federal workers did not deserve it, along with a string of other nasty disrespectful stuff about his opinion of why you deserved nothing.. It was the worst, but not the only comment from the tighty-righties I heard this week.

        • dcsimmons
          dcsimmons commented
          Editing a comment
          When the debate is lost, resort to ad hominem attacks........

      • #27
        I'm baffled how our constitution allows a minority in Congress to shut down the entire government. These minority Tea Party Republicans are holding our entire country hostage and the mainstream Republicans are going along and allowing them. They are extremist ideologues who, by definition, have promised not to compromise and have vowed to dismantle, not modify or fix, the ACA.

        The fact is that the ACA is the law of the land, passed by the House and Senate, signed by the president and upheld by the Supreme Court: all three branches of government working as our constitution intended. And now the very constitution-obsessed Tea Party Republican folks are trying to usurp the constitution by blackmailing the country into revoking the ACA. If the Republicans get their way, then they will be handed a very powerful tool to do get whatever they want outside the legal process of making laws.

        Comment


        • Brewmeister
          Brewmeister commented
          Editing a comment
          In 2007, Democrats held up the budget process in an attempt to de-fund the war in Iraq. Pelosi, Reid, and Obama insisted that their House and Senate were not bound to fund a law passed four years earlier by a different Congress. Senator Russ Feingold wrote convincingly that it was the duty of Congress to defund bad policy.

          I take it you disagreed with the Democrats then?

        • moosetracker
          moosetracker commented
          Editing a comment
          Held up the budget process.. Not shut down the government and took the USA hostage.. There is a difference..

      • #28
        Originally posted by DigitalScout View Post
        I'm baffled how our constitution allows a minority in Congress to shut down the entire government. These minority Tea Party Republicans are holding our entire country hostage and the mainstream Republicans are going along and allowing them.
        If mainstream Republicans are going along with them, then by definition they are not a minority, at least in the House of Representatives.

        They are extremist ideologues who, by definition, have promised not to compromise and have vowed to dismantle, not modify or fix, the ACA.
        There are probably very few Democrats who are completely unwilling to compromise on ACA - are they, too, "extremist ideologues"?

        The fact is that the ACA is the law of the land, passed by the House and Senate, signed by the president and upheld by the Supreme Court: all three branches of government working as our constitution intended. And now the very constitution-obsessed Tea Party Republican folks are trying to usurp the constitution by blackmailing the country into revoking the ACA. If the Republicans get their way, then they will be handed a very powerful tool to do get whatever they want outside the legal process of making laws.
        But it's not outside the legal process. All spending bills originate in the House. That is not merely a Congressional rule -- it is a Constitutional one.

        Again, that the ACA is the law of the land, for now, does not at all imply that it can't be debated, defunded, revoked, etc. It wasn't that long ago (1974-1995) that a 55 mph speed limit was "the law of the land."

        Comment


        • Brewmeister
          Brewmeister commented
          Editing a comment
          That is why the minority is called the opposition party. This is all nothing new. Just theatre.

        • Brewmeister
          Brewmeister commented
          Editing a comment
          That is why the minority is called the opposition party. This is all nothing new. Just theatre.

        • dcsimmons
          dcsimmons commented
          Editing a comment
          So Moose, you're saying that if the people of a district aren't happy with their representation they *shouldn't* threaten a primary challenge? That's not very democratic now is it...

      • #29
        Let's just stop with this silly "shutdown" talk anyway. Nearly 85% of the government is up and running as always. Add to that the fact that we actually have MORE federal employees on the job since the "shutdown" in some areas that we hadn't before--such as erecting barricades and guarding open-air monuments and parks that had NEVER been "shut down" before--and this is nothing more than political theatre.

        Comment


        • packsaddle
          packsaddle commented
          Editing a comment
          .....sputtering....sputtering.. ...how many times do I have to correct you guys? Flavor Aid! It was Flavor Aid that Jim Jones and his cult drank to commit suicide at Jonestown. Flavor Aid!

        • moosetracker
          moosetracker commented
          Editing a comment
          True, sorry Packsaddle you are correct on that point..

          But, I think in this case Kool is better for them to drink.. Might "Kool down their tempers".. Might "Kool down their heads", Might make them "Kool it".

          Kool-Aid might not want the branding of a mass suicidal/murder of Jonestown.. They definitely wouldn't want credit for the government shutdown.. But, perhaps they would be fine with the credit of bringing the Republicans to their senses and reopening the government.. Even if it is through some mass self hypnosis, that their hostage has escaped by 85% anyway so they no longer have any leverage in holding it hostage in order to meet their demands of... "Just give us something, so we can save face" are met..

        • jblake47
          jblake47 commented
          Editing a comment
          The House creates a budget. Senate approves. That's how it works. Okay House submits a budget, the Senate denies it. The House submits another, the Senate denies it. Where's the negotiations on either party? The Senate makes demands, the House ignores them. And while all this goes on, they run out of time. Heck, they ran out of time 10 years ago. Congress hasn't approved a budget for so long, most members can't remember how to do it anymore. For the rest of my life, I'm no longer a Rep or Dem, I'm going to vote against incumbents until Congress starts function again. Some idiot nobody off the streets has as much chance in the US Congress today getting something done than those currently in office.

          Stosh

      • #30

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