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Can a Pack be moved?

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  • Can a Pack be moved?

    Last year, my son decided he wanted to give cub scouts a try so we signed him up. We would go to the weekly meetings and I'm not sure what to think of the cub master. I always had my issues with her, but that's another story. At the end of the year, she moved to another town about 80 miles away. Didn't know what was going to happen with our meetings and such. Well about a month ago, I notice that the Facebook page for our pack was changed. The title was changed from Cub Scouts Pack *** of (our town) was changed simply to Cub Scouts Pack ***. She then changed the address to the town she moved to. Since then, she has started posting pictures from the Fall camping trip that was taken from our town. Then there was a post that said "Stand proud Pack ***. you are now a GOLD QUALITY UNIT... I just received the ribbon for our flag. This is the 1st time for our pack that we received a Gold!!!!"
    Now it should be noted that her two sons are members of this pack and she always seemed to revolve the pack around them. My main question(s) is can she just move to the pack # that has been around in this town for a while and call it her own? Can it become a "gold quality unit" when it's opening up in a new town for the first time when it is clearly based on the activities of what happened in this town?

  • #2
    Odd situation, talk to your Pack Committee and Charter Organization and ask questions. Appearances can be deceiving.

    A cubmaster cannot "move' his or her Pack. The Charter Organization (church, VFW, etc) owns the Pack and provides the meeting location (which can be moved, but 80 miles? unlikely). A Charter Organization may drop a Pack and another Charter Organization (80 miles away?) but within that scout Council could then recharter that Pack. Any awards would follow along with the Pack.

    A cubmaster can move to another scout council and with other adults and another Charter Organization form a new Pack. If the old Pack number is not in use in that Council, then it could be issued to the newly chartered Pack. So there could be as many Pack 154's as there are Councils (~300) in US. A new Pack would not have any awards, Gold or otherwise. The Cubmaster could earn a square knot for starting a new Pack. I suspect the Facebook page is owned by the Cubmaster and not any Pack.

    My $0.02


    • #3
      Got JTE envy? Keep in mind that FB pages really shouldn't involve cubs, so this is an adult ego trip. Get together with your adult committee (this should include your Charter Organization Rep) and decide what you need to do. (E.g., contact parents and other scouters in your area announcing your new Cubmaster, talk to your DE about your charter's status, etc ....) And, let us know 'cause this is one for the believe-it-or-not books!


      • duckfoot
        duckfoot commented
        Editing a comment
        Definitly a committee issue...I bet if he talks to them, they will give him some paperwork to fill out, and direct him where to put the Cubmaster patch on his new shirt.

    • #4
      If she is using unauthorized photos of minors, report it to FB. There are strict rules for using names and images of scouts in social media. The answer to your question is that no, a Pack's charter cannot be moved unless the CO agrees to it...and the DE would have to process that paperwork. No individual "owns" the unit.


      • Scouter99
        Scouter99 commented
        Editing a comment
        There actually are not strict rules for using names/images of scouts in social media. There are recommendations not to use first and last name, and that's about it. (Unless something changed since I inquired with National last year).

    • #5
      I wasn't involved in this stuff when I was a kid and so this last year was my first experience with it and I'm not very knowledgeable about a lot of it. From the way I understand it, though, the cub master is on the area council. As it was, while she was running it, I was not planning on going back while she was in charge any way. I know of several parents who dropped out because it just "wasn't any fun". We would come to our weekly meetings and spend the first 20 minutes of our hour meeting doing a warm up. Most of the time that consisted of a word search or something. Which I didn't care for because my son was 6 at the time and could barely read let alone pick a word out of a ton of letters. This is all she does, though. She doesn't work so Scouting is her whole existence as she was always talking about going down to do stuff on the council. Her sons were getting awards for doing more than any other kid in the history of this pack but I know for a fact that they didn't do any more than any other kid. It's just been a really bad experience and this moving of the pack number without any prior notice was just kind of a big topping on the cake.


      • qwazse
        qwazse commented
        Editing a comment
        I hate when this happens, especially to a family who is new to scouting.
        If I were you, I wouldn't worry about that woman if she is indeed 80 miles away. Maybe she is doing something important on a council or area level, but it sounds like it's completely irrelevant to your son's growth as a scout.

        If I were you: I would get to know your sons wolf den leader. Let him/her know what discouraged you about his first year. Ask if activities could be a little more engaging, and maybe offer to help with a particular activity your son and his buddies would like.

        I hope the program can work for you this year. Cub scouts added so much to my relationship with my sons and their friends, I couldn't imagine doing without it.

    • #6
      Besides getting in contact with the CC & COR, you should look at what the BSA says:
      Also their Facebook Page has this: This link is referenced within the first one. It's in there.
      There might not be hardfast rules from BSA, but these guidelines along with YPT is what I teach at our U of Scouting for Social Media Class.

      As to the whole "not being fun" issue. As other's have pointed out, you need to speak to the Den Leader and Committee Chair (CC). If there is a new Cubmaster, talk to them. And, if so inclined, sign up yourself. It's not as daunting as it seems. It's quite fun.


      • #7
        The short answer is yes.

        I was with a Pack that was moved because the Chartered Organization no longer wanted to provide a meeting place after the CM registered a Mormon family. The Pack was given the option of either kicking the boys out or meeting elsewhere; we choose to meet elsewhere.


        • #8
          Yeah, this looks like a person created a Facebook page for her old Pack, and when she moved, she renamed the existing page rather then create a new one. I don't understand how to "transfer ownership" of Facebook pages myself, and maybe this person didn't know how to create a new one, and hence the confusion. Unlike/unfollow it, and create a new Facebook page for your Pack, if the Committee wants one, complete with ownership/transfer issues worked out in advance. And when the new page is ready, kindly ask the previous owner to share/post any old photos/info.


          • #9
            NeverAnEagle - Again, that is a Charter Organization (CO) releasing their charter, on a BSA unit, including the unit number.

            The CO OWNS the unit..

            If the unit folks want to split from the CO, that is their choice, and can be done. However - if the Co decides that it still wants that BSA unit (just without the dissident members) the CO can hold onto all unit funds, unit equipment, and the unit number, for use by IT'S unit. The CO holds the charter (permission from BSA National to have a BSA unit) - NOT the people, in the unit (including unit leaders or Committee members).

            At that point, the folks leaving the CO's unit would have to go CO shopping to create a brand new unit from scratch, or go to another, already established, unit.


            • NeverAnEagle
              NeverAnEagle commented
              Editing a comment
              We kept the number and still had the CO, we just weren't allowed to meet in the Church or attached School as long as Mormons were present. The Pack moved, granted it was only 10 miles to a community building that didn't care who attended as long as we paid for the space each month. The only thing that changed was the location.

            • DigitalScout
              DigitalScout commented
              Editing a comment
              NeverAnEagle: That's a pretty strong reaction to having a Mormon in the pack. I'm surprised that the Pack parents would tolerate the CO behaving like that. But then again after what I heard from scouters during the gay issue debate, nothing surprises me.

          • #10
            This is just my opinion, but if she is trying to steal the Pack number I would raise hell with the District executive and scout executive. That is a real cost and pain to all the members of the pack.