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Time to dust off the lawyers...

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  • Time to dust off the lawyers...

    If your going to go thru the time and expense of creating a new program, I think they worked too hard at using the existing program.

  • #2
    How many ways are there to depict a person hiking ? I think Trailer Life would be a better fit for them.

    Comment


    • #3
      Dust off the lawyers??? Surely you jest. BSA's legal eagles have been working overtime defending the company against molestation charges, oh, and poking a stick at some little outfit called Hacker Scouts.

      Comment


      • #4
        Why does it remind me of Trails End, the popcorn?? But, except for the "Scouts" does BSA own "similar to"? We don't own the word "Trails" and perhaps if they use same pictures, but similar pictures?.. Doubt it.. Like King Ding Dong states, a person hiking looks fairly similar in most pictures.. About a year back I was trying to find clipart on hiking and they all looked fairly similar, maybe onely 1, maybe 2 or 3, maybe facing left, right, front.. Otherwise fairly the same.. Backpack & hiking stick and mountains..

        Comment


        • Tampa Turtle
          Tampa Turtle commented
          Editing a comment
          I would be happy if they took Trails End popcorn with them. Maybe we can trade some folks at Irving for a player to be named later.

      • #5
        The founder on OnMyHonor.net and now Trail Life USA announced that the head of the BSA legal team had contacted him about using BSA symbols. The lawyer told him to stop or the group would be sued. He has complied. Then the two men talked some more. The lawyer now works for Trail Life USA.

        Comment


        • Basementdweller
          Basementdweller commented
          Editing a comment
          I would like to see a link for proper citation....

        • WAKWIB
          WAKWIB commented
          Editing a comment
          From a Trail Life press release one of the leadership team is identified as follows:
          "Attorney Richard Mathews, Consultant and legal counsel for Trail Life USA. Richard worked for the BSA professionally as their in-house legal counsel for eleven years, culminating as the BSA’s General Counsel for the last three years."
          http://www.traillifeusa.com/our-media/press-releases/

      • #6
        Well I hope the gay and lesbian folks attack them and their sponsors as much as they are attacking the BSA.

        Once this is put to bed and openly gay leaders are allowed to join....I wonder who will attack the BSA next. Will it be to include young girls????

        Comment


        • NJCubScouter
          NJCubScouter commented
          Editing a comment
          WAKWIB says: "I don't think the thought of trimming down the staff has crossed either organizations mind."



          I don't know about GSUSA, but didn't the BSA eliminate about 60 or 70 positions at National HQ just a few years ago? I do not know how many of them were "professionals" but I would assume some of them were. On the council level, I do not have exact statistics, but I would estimate that the two former councils that make up my current council each had about 5 or 6 districts 20 years ago, and now the entire council has 5. Each district has one professional, so it seems to me that my council has half the professional staff as the predecessor councils. (And if you go further back, there were more councils, and more districts that no longer exist.) Another nearby council, Northern New Jersey, contains at least 15 former councils if you go back far enough - probably more; as a Scout I was in a council that had one city and two towns, and my father was a Scout and Scouter in a different council that had one small city, and all are now part of NNJC. Conservatively, that would probably be at least 40 former districts. Now that council has three districts. That adds up to a LOT fewer professionals.

        • WAKWIB
          WAKWIB commented
          Editing a comment
          Just looking at my own council I think the number has grown since the merger in the 70's. We have a Main Field director with 4 assistant types under him for 4 distinct areas of the metro. There used to be only 1 DE per district. We now have at least 2 in every district, 3 in some, and a couple with 4.
          I seem to recall that the fat trim at national was more office types like secretaries due to less paperwork. I also think that some of that was done at regional offices.
          Anyway, BSA is far from being a lean organization. I think that it's only saving grace financially is that it has a ton of money "in the bank" so-to-speak.

        • 00Eagle
          00Eagle commented
          Editing a comment
          NJCubScouter, Northern New Jersey Council has three districts, but that's after a realignment from nine districts. At full strength, each district should have three professionals (director, sr exec, jr exec). I guess they thought it would be easier to find three district chairs, three district commissioners, etc. and still have the same number of professionals.

      • #7
        I don't think those hiking pictures are close enough to cause a problem. It would be interesting to know what else Trail Life had to change. American Heritage Girls had to change some things at the beginning too (I think they were using Tenderfoot and changed it to Tenderheart, or something like that.)



        I agree with Moosetracker that the name sounds like something other than a youth organization. Maybe popcorn (Trail's End), maybe a magazine (Boys' Life), maybe a company selling backpacking equipment, food, etc. Well, actually, here it is in the title of a book about lightweight backpacking: http://www.amazon.com/Trail-Life-Jar.../dp/0963235974 It's on the first page of Google hits, along with many articles about the new organization.

        Comment


        • #8
          Check out this link.....

          Now I am scratching my head thinking what the heck???????????

          http://voices.yahoo.com/trail-life-u...-12314071.html


          According to NBC, over a thousand former Scouts and Scouters from 44 states are meeting in Tennessee to herald this new organization. Leaders claim it will be a "Christian" alternative to the BSA but, strangely, will still allow gay members so long as they do not "flaunt" their sexuality. Additionally, despite Trail Life USA's "Christian" roots, it will not "become religious and churchy," says John Stemberger, one of the founders. So Trail Life USA, formed by those angry about the Boy Scouts of America allowing gay youth members, will still allow gays itself and be "Christian" but not "religious or churchy"? Sounds like some marketing kinks still need to be ironed out.

          Comment


          • NJCubScouter
            NJCubScouter commented
            Editing a comment
            They do seem to be trying to be clever with their statements, and the media and bloggers who are writing about this do not seem to be asking the right questions in order to achieve clarity. Here is what I think is: If a youth in this new group says "I'm gay", "Trail Life USA" will say that the youth is "flaunting" his sexuality and kick him out, whereas under the BSA's new policy, that statement would merely mean that the youth is "openly gay" and he wouldn't be kicked out. That's my guess, anyway. If I'm wrong, and the two organizations would treat that statement the same way, there was really no reason for these folks to go through the effort of forming a new group. But I doubt they did it for no reason.

          • Basementdweller
            Basementdweller commented
            Editing a comment
            Ya know I initially had some respect for them....

            Putting their money and effort were their beliefs lie....


            Now well not so much.....

        • #9
          In looking their web site, I notice that their high-school-age program is called "Adventurers" (as opposed to "Venturing") and is led by an "Advisor"; their 6th-8th grade program is led by a "Trailmaster" (as opposed to a "Scoutmaster") and their K-5 program has ranks of Fox, Hawk and Mountain Lion (as opposed to Bobcat, Tiger, Wolf and Bear, and in some places Lion for kindergarten-age boys). So they obviously took some ideas from the BSA but it seems to me that they kept the terminology far enough apart that it shouldn't be a legal problem. (Though "Adventurers" v. "Venturing" is pretty close.)

          Comment


          • King Ding Dong
            King Ding Dong commented
            Editing a comment
            Click, I view the BSA's customers a little different than you. The Scouts.
            Last edited by King Ding Dong; 09-16-2013, 05:31 PM.

          • click23
            click23 commented
            Editing a comment
            KDD - I don't think that our views are that different, I view the COs as the customers of the BSA, the scouts are the customers of the COs

          • WAKWIB
            WAKWIB commented
            Editing a comment
            Yep, in reality the CO is the customer. The CO enters into a contract with BSA in order to have a unit that will serve the youth. It needs to be understood that Trail Life isn't just a response of some dissatisfied scouters, but at the core are Charter Organizations (Churches) that no longer wish to enter into a business relationship with the BSA. One should also realize that there are a large number of potential COs that have never worked with BSA in the past but may actually find TLUSA more in line with their mission to serve the youth in their community. TLUSA has clearly stated that they want the COs to be intentional about, and committed to the program, and not simply be the annual signature and check-in-the-mail.

        • #10
          I guess we'll have to wait until the worthybadge.org site comes online to find out requirements and such...

          Looking at their forum it seems that they might start passing around the Flavor Aid in a bit...

          Comment


          • #11
            Originally posted by duckfoot View Post
            If your going to go thru the time and expense of creating a new program, I think they worked too hard at using the existing program.
            Get a Life...Wonder where BSA got the Idea of a Shadow On a Mountain of a Stick figure wearing a Back Pack representing Hiking...Next thing ya know they will go after someone who puts a Tent in the Wilderness on a Patch.

            Comment


            • duckfoot
              duckfoot commented
              Editing a comment
              Take a deep breath...count to ten...lighten up

            • moosetracker
              moosetracker commented
              Editing a comment
              What duckfoot.. I can't lay claim to the green pup tents?.. Well what about the summer camp A frame tents? Either of these will do, as both are popular for a tent picture.

            • duckfoot
              duckfoot commented
              Editing a comment
              Sorry Moose that was for Texas...You're fine...carry on

          • #12
            Lighten Up... Me.. after the Letter I got from Burgin Hardin Licensing and Contracts Attorney BSA National Council over what would have been free gifts for Council and OA Lodge because I had made a few items made and Designed for Gifts but someone lied and said I was Selling them. Had to Remove the Pictures from Facebook so no one would mistake them as Official BSA Items for sale. I was informed it was my Obligation to report anyone for anything BSA Related without a License. However BSA can not Claim the Stick Man Hiking or a Tent in the Woods as BSA Oriented..They Might as well Claim they own Rank system, Merit Badges, Honor Societies..etc....I kinda wish I could move overseas and be a Scout over there..Not a BOY SCOUT OF AMERICA overseas.

            Comment


            • Peregrinator
              Peregrinator commented
              Editing a comment
              The BSA does in fact claim that it owns the term "merit badge" ... another organization might use a term like "proficiency badge" (which I believe was B-P's term).

              I don't know of another country (other than Canada) in which the "official" scouting organization claims and tries to enforce a monopoly on scouting.
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