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Boy Scouts threaten to sue Oakland-based nonprofit for using 'scouts' in name

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  • #16
    Originally posted by RememberSchiff View Post

    What if another youth group, say the "1911 Scouts" formed and decided to use the requirements listed in your link?
    That describes the various Baden-Powell Scouts associations, except they are based on B-P's more rugged Patrol System and badge requirements, with the specific year of either 1938 or 1965.


  • #17
    I wonder if BSA (Birmingham Small Arms Company) ever sued BSA over their trademark? At one time they were the largest motorcycle manufacturer and their optics are still popular.


    • Merlyn_LeRoy
      Merlyn_LeRoy commented
      Editing a comment
      Or the Business Software Alliance, which mostly exists to fight illegal software copying and IP infringement.

      Kudu, I seem to remember the opposite, where someone pointed out that the BSA's trademark for youth groups wouldn't cover the name of a vehicle, since they can't really be confused with each other. But it was a long time ago that I saw that.

    • TSS_Chris
      TSS_Chris commented
      Editing a comment
      Maybe the BSAs should join forces: Approach local businesses, and ask for a tour. At some point a cute young Scout asks "Wow, you sure have a lot of computers, can you show me the records stating you have appropriate software licenses for them all?" BAM! The troop turns the company in to the other BSA and collects the reward

      It's a lot more lucrative than popcorn.
      Last edited by TSS_Chris; 09-05-2013, 03:33 PM.

    • King Ding Dong
      King Ding Dong commented
      Editing a comment
      Or they could form an alliance with Hacker Scouts and train all the kids to become patent and copyright trolls. Big bucks.

  • #18
    This puts a lie to the claim by apologists for BSA discriminatory practices that all those excluded need to do is to create their own Scouting organization; eg, "Atheist Scouts", which I believe I've seen them offer. BSA holds a monopoly on Scouting in this country and they have a long history of suing anybody who tries to create an alternative Scouting organization.


    • qwazse
      qwazse commented
      Editing a comment
      Don't play semantics, friend. A naive prospect would immediately associate a youth movement with that name to the pre-existing movement. If someone proposed such a thing to you in the past, it surely was not to simply tape that name over existing BSA material and carry on, but to organize a youth movent on better and more nobly applied principles than the current movement,

      Something like "Young Naturalists" would not infringe on the trademark. Of course, it might infringe one someone else's moniker. Start-ups have to do their homework.

    • Kudu
      Kudu commented
      Editing a comment
      Semantics? Scouting was a "pre-existing movement" when Congress picked the BSA as its American monopoly corporation, in EXCHANGE for the promise to define Scouting as the Scoutcraft program practiced on June 15, 1916.

      A naïve prospect would immediately associate the BSA with "Scouting," but we pay a guy a million dollars a year to badmouth Scoutcraft in the name of Wood Badge.

      It's as if Congress granted the Yellow Cab Corporation a monopoly on "Taxi" on June 15, 2016. You call for a taxi on June 16th, but a guy arrives at your house to teach you "leadership skills."

    • DWise1_AOL
      DWise1_AOL commented
      Editing a comment
      Don't play semantics, friend.
      Then do please stop playing semantics and stop projectin.

      And I know better than to call your kind "friend".

      Another youth movement with different name and different objectives would not be Scouting.

      BSA holds a monopoly on Scouting in this country. Despite it's being held hostage by religious bigots.

      A youth movement that is not Scouting is not nor have ever been the issue. We are talking about Scouting being available to all. If you want to exclude anybody, then you had damned well be able to provicde a cogent argument for their exclusion.

      Officially published BSA policy provides no such support.

      I know full well that apologists for BSA religious discrimination have advanced the "argument" that atheists could form their own "Atheist Scouts". I am also quite certain that that same argument has been posted on this very same forum. I know that such an "argument" is absolutely false and I know that proof of this is BSA's readiness to sue anybody over their "copyright".

  • #19
    Hacker scouts bow to continued BSA legal pressure and decide to change their name.


    • King Ding Dong
      King Ding Dong commented
      Editing a comment
      Good to see the are taking it well. They have a Kickstarter page. I am going to make a small donation.

    • RememberSchiff
      RememberSchiff commented
      Editing a comment
      Then again, if National's various servers start shutting down tonight...

    • JoeBob
      JoeBob commented
      Editing a comment
      The former 'Hacker Scouts' could do more damage to BSA by leaving their current servers running!

  • #20
    It was a very valid defense.

    ---- You can create your own Pizza Hut, but ya can't call it Pizza Hut.

    ---- You can create your own McDonalds, but ya can't call it McDonalds.

    ---- You can sell your own Kleenex, but ya can't call them Kleenex.

    ---- You can creating your own scouting organization, but ya can't use scouts.

    The Oakland group was leveraging the goodwill and reputation of the BSA program to create their own credibility. They wanted to ride the coattails of another group and muddy the waters on which program is which.


    DWise1_AOL is just another faith hater damaged by their own lives and now looking to damage others.

    It's not that they wanted to actually create another program as much as they want to change ours.

    Dwise1_AOL ... May I suggest ... Atheist Youth Adventurers, AYA. ... Atheist Pioneers? ... Or UUA youth ?


    • #21
      Originally posted by fred johnson View Post
      It was a very valid defense.
      The difference between the BSA and all those other companies you mentioned is that the word "scout" (unqualified) is not trademarked and probably can't be because it is too generic. It is protected because of the Boy Scouts' congressional charter and not because of trademark as is the case with Pizza Hut, McDonald's, Kleenex, etc.

      The other thing is that "Hacker Scouts" is not a scouting organization at all, it's simply a youth organization, so there is little chance of confusion.

      All that said, there is nothing keeping an atheist from starting a "scout-like" youth organization and calling it something else. I also know that the BPSA accepts atheists -- in fact their chief commissioner is an atheist.


      • #22

        Point taken. Legalistically, "Scouts" / "Scout" is not a trademark. But as you acknowledge, it is protected and essentially as good as a trademark. And many companies are under congressional charters. Girl scouts. Red Cross. American Legion. Etc.

        As for trademark though....

        It seems very clear though that "Hacker Scouts" is trying to leverage the good reputation developed over 100 years of Boy Scouts. BSA does have registered trademarks in Cub Scout(s), Boy Scout(s), Venturing Scout, Sea Scouts, Eagle Scout, Boy Scouts of America, Scout Shop, Scout Stuff, Scoutmaster, Scouting USA.

        Hacker scouts knew very well what they were doing and that is why they choose the name. They just didn't think anyone would care. But BSA needs to defend the brand.


        • #23
          Word Mark PHILMONT
          Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: series of musical sound recordings; downloadable musical sound recordings. FIRST USE: 20060114. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20060114 IC 014. US 002 027 028 050. G & S: slap bracelets. FIRST USE: 20070700. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20070700
          IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: stickers, posters. FIRST USE: 20050700. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050700
          IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: clothing, namely, t-shirts; hooded shirts. FIRST USE: 20050700. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050700
          IC 026. US 037 039 040 042 050. G & S: ornamental buttons. FIRST USE: 20050700. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20050700
          IC 038. US 100 101 104. G & S: streaming of audio and video content on the internet. FIRST USE: 20040000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040000
          IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: entertainment services, namely, live musical performances; providing website pages featuring music, entertainment information on a band and its members, performances, recordings, appearances, photographs, discography and other entertainment information. FIRST USE: 20040000. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040000
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          Current Basis 1A
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          Published for Opposition September 22, 2009
          Registration Number 3805382
          Registration Date June 22, 2010
          Owner (REGISTRANT) Philmont, Inc. CORPORATION NORTH CAROLINA 10717 Persimmon Creek Drive Charlotte NORTH CAROLINA 28227
          Attorney of Record Lawrence E. Apolzon,
          Type of Mark TRADEMARK. SERVICE MARK
          Register PRINCIPAL
          Live/Dead Indicator LIVE


          • #24
            Goods and Services IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S: Association services, namely, promoting the interests of a proprietary ranch and staff members thereof. FIRST USE: 20040806. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20040806
            Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS
            Design Search Code 01.05.01 - Sun, rising or setting (partially exposed or partially obstructed); Sunrise
            06.01.04 - Mountains (landscapes); Scenery with mountains
            26.11.02 - Plain single line rectangles; Rectangles (single line)
            26.17.13 - Letters or words underlined and/or overlined by one or more strokes or lines; Overlined words or letters; Underlined words or letters
            Serial Number 78463386
            Filing Date August 6, 2004
            Current Basis 1A
            Original Filing Basis 1A
            Published for Opposition September 27, 2005
            Registration Number 3031765
            Registration Date December 20, 2005
            Owner (REGISTRANT) Philmont Staff Association NON-PROFIT CORPORATION NEW MEXICO 17 Deer Run Road Cimarron NEW MEXICO 87714
            Attorney of Record Taylor M. Davenport
            Description of Mark The mark consists of The letters PSA with a stylized rendition of Baldy Mountain and a setting sun in the background, the words PHILMONT STAFF ASSOCIATION written below.
            Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
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            • #25
              And Check this Out ...Dead Means Not Longer Valid
              Goods and Services (CANCELLED) IC 041. US 107. G & S: Educational Services-Namely, Providing Training and Recreational Programs for Boy Scouts. FIRST USE: 19630630. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19630630
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              Current Basis 1A
              Original Filing Basis 1A
              Published for Opposition September 28, 1982
              Change In Registration CHANGE IN REGISTRATION HAS OCCURRED
              Registration Number 1221222
              Registration Date December 21, 1982
              Attorney of Record CHRISTOPHER A. SIDOTI
              Disclaimer No claim is made to exclusive use of "Scout Ranch & Explorer Base" apart from the mark as shown.
              Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
              Register PRINCIPAL
              Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR).
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              Cancellation Date September 27, 2003