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Will Scouts be Stigmatized?

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  • Will Scouts be Stigmatized?

    In the Supreme Court's DOMA ruling, the majority stated that prohibiting gay adults from marrying created a stigma for the children of gay parents. You can draw a parallel in the BSA gay adult leader ban creates a similar stigma. Children of heterosexual parents are allowed to be leaders where children of gay parents are NOT allowed.

    Not only does the BSA policy create two classes of adult leaders, it also creates a two classes of Scouts. Johnny's parents are allowed to be leaders but Jimmy's parents are NOT.

  • #2
    BSA should be stigmatized for discriminating against certainly families just because they aren't a man and a woman.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think there are many classes of adult leaders, I know my Eagle Scout neighbor who was arrested for making and selling adult pornographic movies was turned down by the BSA. He didn't even have kids. I know of a drug dealer older brother (bad one) that was turned away as well. Should we be afraid of stigmatizing the kids by those behavior classifications? What you are really saying is the BSA legitimized homosexuallity as a dangerous behavior, which you don't agree. Is homosexuality a dangerous behavior? I think it is, so we agree to disagree. Barry

      Comment


      • st0ut717
        st0ut717 commented
        Editing a comment
        How is it dangerous behavior?

      • Eagledad
        Eagledad commented
        Editing a comment
        My editor doesn't work well with the Scouter site, so I will keep the answer short. Please forgive the bluntness of the answer. I have much better answers to the question buried somewhere in the archives. I have seen no evidence in my life time that the homosexuality behavior is any more natural than humans who desire sex with animals. Their is the mental and physical health issues of the person who desires to participate in the behavior as well as the the health issues of continued behavior. That being said, I have close friends and relatives who are gay, so I'm not ignorant to the behavior and lifestyle. I have a lot of compassion for them because I see them suffer greatly. Barry

    • #4
      DigitalScout ... and your point is? BSA also doesn't want overweight leaders and it probably stigmatizes their kids too

      =====================

      I should mention I think BSA should not reject leaders based on orientation. Let charter organizations choose leaders that reflect their beliefs and values. Get BSA out of this political war. More importantly get kids out of this political war and TO HECK with the people who want to fight this societal battle on a kids playground.
      Last edited by fred johnson; 07-10-2013, 09:26 AM.

      Comment


      • Pack18Alex
        Pack18Alex commented
        Editing a comment
        Agreed, I find it bizarre that they are attacking a program that is 2/3s elementary school kids about sexual orientation. I'd get out of the entire structure. We have values, an oath, etc. We leave it to our Councils, Districts, and Charter Organization to define the details.

        Don't want gay leaders, don't charter units to churches that recognize them. Use the chartering process to control the values, and get the government back able to endorse.

        We do not require a religious belief for membership. But if the boy doesn't complete his religious achievements, he doesn't earn his ranks that require it. We don't discriminate, and get back into the schools.

      • Merlyn_LeRoy
        Merlyn_LeRoy commented
        Editing a comment
        Use the chartering process to control the values, and get the government back able to endorse.

        We do not require a religious belief for membership. But if the boy doesn't complete his religious achievements, he doesn't earn his ranks that require it. We don't discriminate, and get back into the schools.


        You can't get government support if members' religious views can result in inferior treatment; unless atheists and anyone who created their own religious cult last weekend can earn all ranks, that won't be good enough.

      • st0ut717
        st0ut717 commented
        Editing a comment
        What ranks require religious achievement?

    • #5
      My point is that the Supreme Court ruled against DOMA in part because they felt that children with gay parents would be stigmatized because their parents would be unable to get married. In that line of thinking, scouts would be stigmatized because their parents will be ineligible to be leaders.

      Originally posted by fred johnson View Post
      BSA also doesn't want overweight leaders and it probably stigmatizes their kids too.
      Considering that the overwhelming majority (~70%) of American adults are overwieght or obese, I don't think there is a stigma for the kids in that regard.

      Comment


      • #6
        Yes, all children with gay parents will be stigmatized regardless of BSA's policy.

        Comment


        • King Ding Dong
          King Ding Dong commented
          Editing a comment
          "With gay parents, you ALWAYS have at least one who is not blood related and sometimes two. It is a big difference."

          Except in Arkansas or the southern part my state Missouri.

        • moosetracker
          moosetracker commented
          Editing a comment
          JBlake what makes you think our Founding Fathers set up for the nation to have tolerance for criminals.. They use to hang them.. I don't think they called bullies, bullies, but I am sure they had them.. I doubt the vision was to have tolerance for bullies..

        • dcsimmons
          dcsimmons commented
          Editing a comment
          Fred Johnson: "We co-exist. That's America. "

          Not anymore.

      • #7
        I think that, at least for Boy Scouts - all Scouts feel stigmatized because their parents are - well they are their parents! Being embarrassed about your parents is a time honored teen-age rite of passage. Now if one was the Scoutmaster - that makes it even worse!
        Last edited by acco40; 08-27-2013, 08:27 PM.

        Comment


        • #8
          Gee, when I was that age, the last thing I wanted was my parents involved in any activity I was involved in. We had our family time and then I needed space the rest of the time. It didn't matter if it was church, scouts, or school. These were areas were I needed to develop on my own. The last thing I needed in my life was having to go to the principal's office and find my mother sitting there.

          Comment


          • #9
            Our troop has gay adult leaders, gay scouts, and scouts with gay parents. They should all feel equally welcome to participate and be part of our community. We've reiterated child protection policies, particularly in light of the fall 2012 release of documents about BSA's hiding/protection of child molesters. Quite frankly that was far more concerning to parents than gay scouts, men, & women in scouting.

            Comment


            • fred johnson
              fred johnson commented
              Editing a comment
              That is absolutely a fine choice for YOUR troop and in my opinion, your troop should be able to make those leadership choices.

              When I think about the family membership of my troop, you would lose half the members if any of the direct contact leaders were publicly gay. And to be honest, I'd switch my own children out of the group too. Not because of a youth protection risk but because of lifestyle marketing that automatically happens because every adult leader sets an example by how they lead their lives and by what the youth see.

              With that said, I hope BSA changes their policy so that your troop can publicly do what you are doing instead of having to skirt the values expressed in the Scout Law to choose the your troop leaders.
              Last edited by fred johnson; 08-23-2013, 11:51 AM.

            • moosetracker
              moosetracker commented
              Editing a comment
              Exactly Fred, choose the unit in your local that best mirrors your beliefs and values.. But, units (parents, scouts) with different values than yours should have the same rights.
              Last edited by acco40; 08-27-2013, 08:29 PM. Reason: then corrected to than

            • Scouter99
              Scouter99 commented
              Editing a comment
              "...fall 2012 release of documents about BSA's hiding/protection of child molesters."
              False: http://www.scouter.com/forum/issues-...olunteer-files
              If you honestly believe that BSA "hides/protects child molesters" then you'd have to be either an idiot or a coldhearted bastard to bring or recruit children to the BSA, wouldn't you.
              Last edited by Scouter99; 08-26-2013, 09:27 AM.

          • #10
            stOut717, Wolf, Bear, and Webelos, if I'm not mistaken. Well not to be the rank, but to earn the badge.

            Comment


            • st0ut717
              st0ut717 commented
              Editing a comment
              Yes there are religious awards however none are required.

            • JoeBob
              JoeBob commented
              Editing a comment
              Wolf Achievement 11:
              DUTY TO GOD (Page 94)
              Complete the Character Connection for Faith
              Know. What is "faith"? With your family, discuss some people who have shown their faith - who have shown an inner strength based on their trust in a higher power or cause. Discuss the good qualities of these people.
              Commit. Discuss these questions with your family: What problems did these faithful people overcome to follow or practice their beliefs? What challenges might you face in doing your duty to God? Who can help you with these challenges?
              Practice. Practice your faith while doing the requirements for "Duty to God."
              Talk with your family about what they believe is their duty to God.
              Give two ideas on how you can practice or demonstrate your religious beliefs. Choose one and do it.
              Find out how you can help your church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or religious fellowship.
              ***

              Bear:
              GOD (Do ONE of the following)

              WAYS WE WORSHIP (Page 26)
              Complete both requirements.
              Complete the Character Connection for Faith
              Know. Name some people in history who have shown great faith. Discuss with an adult how faith has been important at a particular point in his or her life.
              Commit. Discuss with an adult how having faith and hope will help you in your life, and also discuss some ways that you can strengthen your faith.
              Practice. Practice your faith as you are taught in your home, church, synagogue, mosque, or religious fellowship.
              Make a list of things you can do this week to practice your religion as you are taught in your home, church, synagogue, mosque, or other religious community. Check them off your list as you complete them.
              Back to the Achievements List

              EMBLEMS OF FAITH (Page 30)
              Complete the requirement.
              Earn the religious emblem of your faith. (A list of the religious emblems available to Cub Scouts is listed on this site. Click here to see it.)

            • st0ut717
              st0ut717 commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks I stand corrected
              We did these as family exercises and discussion.
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