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Mike Rowe - Don't separate education from skill

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  • Mike Rowe - Don't separate education from skill

    Interesting interview with Mike Rowe regarding education.

    http://www.insideedition.com/videos/...-learn-a-trade

  • #2
    This is why scouting is such a great program. As the boys grow an they start to choose their path the merit badge system allows and encourages these different paths.
    You want to be a lawyer? eagle requirement in particular Citizenships, Communication, Law, Scholarship, Crime Prevention, American Business, Entrepreneurship, American Labor, Public Speaking.
    You Want to be a Act? : Eagle requirements,Communication, Art, theater, Bugle, music, cinematography
    You want to work for an F1 team? eagle Citizenship of the world, Communication,Automotive maintencance, Computers, chemestry, engineering, inventing .


    I dant think of an occupation that cannont have a meritbadge system behind it to ensure that the boys succeed in their path.

    Comment


    • #3
      My guess is Mr. Rowe would be more impressed with MBs like Automotive Maintenance, Farm Mechanics, Welding, Plumbing, Electricity, Woodwork and Metalwork. Maybe Truck Transportation, Drafting, Painting and Animal Science. I suspect 4H and FFA are better positioned to deal with the skills gap that Mr. Rowe discusses.

      Comment


      • fred johnson
        fred johnson commented
        Editing a comment
        I like the list. It doesn't waste scout time on topics they've seen for years in school. It fills in gaps and opens scouts to new arenas.

    • #4
      my son has his current career goals and we mapped out what merit badges would help him get to that goal.

      Challege think of a career and see if we cant find the merit badges that will help the boy get that career

      Comment


      • #5
        So unbelievably true. Our society pushes and pushes folks to go to college, even if it isn't a good fit. Heck even some of the skills trades are looking for college degree now. Because in our society a piece of paper saying you completed a program means more than x number of years expereince.

        Further it's Catch 22 now. You need expereince to get most jobs now, but you need a job to get the expereince. Especially with youth today. Ther are so many rules and restrictions on whatthey can and cannot do, it's no wonder that some companies will not hire youth.

        Which is another benefit of Scouting: letting youth gain expereince. I constantly surprise coworkers with some of the things I did in Scouting as a youth and young adult leader.

        Comment


        • #6
          Locally we have a shortage of CNC machinist, electricians and pipefitters.

          Eagle your forgetting expectations. The millenial generation come for a job interview and expect to dictate their employment conditions......Last young man that interviewed wanted a month of vacation and salary Equal to what a fellow who has 20 year experience makes. He also expected to negotiate his share of the health coverage....

          When I graduated college I remember feeling happy I found a job.....even though it barely covered my living expenses and I lived on happy hour buffys for dinner for a number of years. Low wages and long hours were my expectation,

          Trades are an excellent way to make a living......Many are structured to train new employees, thru apprenticeships.

          But many of todays youth see them as dirty and frankly beneath them.

          Comment


          • dcsimmons
            dcsimmons commented
            Editing a comment
            So true. I work in a university setting and tire quickly of hearing young people complain about the menial tasks they are expected to complete.

        • #7
          My younger son's school suddenly dropped their carpentry program this spring. Distressed, I spoke with our principal Jack S. who said "That was 50's technology. We prepare our students for the 21st Century" i.e., service jobs and select professional jobs.

          Back in my day, even public junior and senior high schools had shop classes. Unlike vocational schools, the public school courses were survey courses. Over 3 years, I spent a semester or two in wood, metal (cold chisels!), graphic arts, engine, plumbing (threaded a lot of pipe), and electrical shops. The skills I learned and the projects I made lead to Woodworking (my shop teacher was my MBC - hand tools only, all corners had to be square!), Metalwork, Metallurgy, and Electricity merit badges. Those were some tough merit badges.

          Today, damn few of the public schools have trade shops, but they do having OUTING clubs and if a public school scout wants a short survey course to try a trade then maybe a merit badge is his only option. Rather ironic.

          My $0.02

          Comment


          • #8
            Even more ironic is that if someone makes the effort to actually learn these "outdated" trades, they can almost demand their own price to those who want premium work. Look at the program American Restoration for example. We had a couple of brothers in the troop a few years back whose father specialized in custom body work; clients came to him when they could not get original parts, and he would make them from scratch or rebuild old ones if usable. Always had more work than he could handle. A master furniture maker never lacks for customers. These people also take "pride" in their skills.

            I am not, nor ever have been, one with skills along these lines, but I do know something about them. When needed, because of my financial state at the time, I have done basic plumbing, basic electrical, and basic carpentry. Not pretty, but utile at the time. And, kids very often are literally fascinated by even rudimentary skills in these areas.

            Interestingly enough, even the so called "modern" skills already are begging for people that can fix things from the early days. In computers, there are fewer and fewer that understand the very basic codes that are the foundations of so much of the current programing. They are just there; but when something goes buggy with these early programs, it is often a really serious issue because they cannot find anyone knowledgeable about them. Similar situations are found with auto repair, especially if the vehicle is pre computer era.

            We are missing the boat in trying to "force" everybody to go to college. And even in the college level programs, we are losing leverage by undermining the value of the arts and even, to some extent, basic language skills.

            Just things that I have noted and find cautionary or simply interesting.

            Comment


            • #9
              Don't get it backwards - the Scout should be taking merit badges that exposes/introduces them to many of the various professions that are out there. Don't think of a career and then pursue merit badges along those lines. Why limit career choices at the age of 13, 14 ,15 16 or even 17?



              Also, keep in mind that even if a Scout wants to become a carpenter, do body work, etc. they still benefit from basic English, science and mathematics courses. That is what our high schools should be teaching. Right now, I'd say 75% of community colleges and 50% of universities concentrate on getting freshmen up to speed on basic high school academics. Today's high school is equivalent to "yesterday's" junior high, today's college to yesterday's high school, etc.



              When my daughter, a recent high school graduate who is starting college in the fall told me that about they only thing they studied in history/social studies during high school and middle school was race relations, integration, etc. and barely anything about the American Revolution, Civil War, WWI/WWII, Korean Conflict, Vietnam, Industrial Age, etc. much less Greek, Roman or European history - well as my colleagues at work state - you raised 'em now you have to work with 'em!

              Comment


              • #10
                Another good talk, this time at Jambo
                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85dCjsCgvXQ#at=1622

                Educated and SKILLED
                Work Smart AND HARD.
                A scout is Clean but NOT AFRAID TO GET DIRTY.

                Comment


                • #11
                  I've seen about 4 interviews with Mr. Rowe on thsi subject now. I think he makes some valid points, the largest of which is the disparity between what most colleges THINK you need as curriculum for a degree and what business NEEDS you to have. In my own profession, I only use about 1/4 of what I was taught (even in the science and math sections) in my day to day business. In retrospect, if my college tract could have replaced some of the non-essential stuff with more communication (verbal and written) requirements, and more interpersonal relationship / psychology classwork, and some more emphasis on business, it would have better prepared me for the real world of healthcare.

                  I think that and the idea that a well earning blue collar job is some how less esteamed than a low paying white collar job has done a disservice to an entire generation now. I see a LOT of college graduates working outsied their degree professions because that is where the job is and it pays the same of better than what they went to school for. Folks really need to look at ROI (return on investment) on the degree field (or major) and take that into consideration when choosing a program or college. A 4 year BA degree from a private school that costs your 15K+ a year is not likely to be a good ROI, if you're only going to make 40K a year. A 4 yr BS degree from a state school that costs 20K a year is a good deal, if you can make close to 100K after graduation.

                  Far too many kids looking to do "what I love", instead of realistically looking for something close that can be "what I like enough to do for a career" and still make a livable wage at it. Maybe that is settling for less, but it beats the heck out of a 4 yr arts degree that leaves you asking, "Would you like fries with that?".

                  I've seen about 4 interviews with Mr. Rowe on thsi subject now. I think he makes some valid points, the largest of which is the disparity between what most colleges THINK you need as curriculum for a degree and what business NEEDS you to have. In my own profession, I only use about 1/4 of what I was taught (even in the science and math sections) in my day to day business. In retrospect, if my college tract could have replaced some of the non-essential stuff with more communication (verbal and written) requirements, and more interpersonal relationship / psychology classwork, and some more emphasis on business, it would have better prepared me for the real world of healthcare.

                  I think that and the idea that a well earning blue collar job is some how less esteamed than a low paying white collar job has done a disservice to an entire generation now. I see a LOT of college graduates working outsied their degree professions because that is where the job is and it pays the same of better than what they went to school for. Folks really need to look at ROI (return on investment) on the degree field (or major) and take that into consideration when choosing a program or college. A 4 year BA degree from a private school that costs your 15K+ a year is not likely to be a good ROI, if you're only going to make 40K a year. A 4 yr BS degree from a state school that costs 20K a year is a good deal, if you can make close to 100K after graduation.

                  Far too many kids looking to do "what I love", instead of realistically looking for something close that can be "what I like enough to do for a career" and still make a livable wage at it. Maybe that is settling for less, but it beats the heck out of a 4 yr arts degree that leaves you asking, "Would you like fries with that?".

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Originally posted by DeanRx View Post
                    I've seen about 4 interviews with Mr. Rowe on thsi subject now. I think he makes some valid points, the largest of which is the disparity between what most colleges THINK you need as curriculum for a degree and what business NEEDS you to have. In my own profession, I only use about 1/4 of what I was taught (even in the science and math sections) in my day to day business. In retrospect, if my college tract could have replaced some of the non-essential stuff with more communication (verbal and written) requirements, and more interpersonal relationship / psychology classwork, and some more emphasis on business, it would have better prepared me for the real world of healthcare.
                    The problem with your assumption about only using 1/4 of what you were taught in day to day business, is that if you were working for another business, you might need a different 1/4, or maybe 1/8 in common, 1/8 of different material.

                    Comment


                    • DeanRx
                      DeanRx commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yeah Perdidochas, you might be right about that. However, some of the very in depth infectious disease stuff, or the neonatal pharmacokinetics stuff, or the pscyhology stuff, etc... really isn't "needed" for 90% of day to day practitioners. The problem, even within medicine, is that EVERY sub-specialty thinks THEIR discipline is the most important. Thus, an average increase in on campus schooling of 1.5 years in the past 15 in my profession.

                      Pharmacy used to be a B.S. degree, now its all Doctor of Pharmacy. When I graduated 15 years ago, less than 1/3 of folks did a residency... now, there are not enough jobs for those who have done a residency (to the turn of another 1-2 years of education before getting paid and another 1-2 years of debt deferment)! Same thing goes for the Physical Therapists, used to be BS, then was a masters, now only doctorate degree. A BS in nursing is nothing but a stepping stone, you either get a Masters, or a NP (nurse practitioner).

                      In the medical side of the house, used to be you went to med school, then did a residency, then could go be a general practitioner. Heck, everybody has to do a residency and most a fellowship now to set themselves apart! They make the same wage as before with an additional 2-3 years of time spent, with less pay during those years, and additional DEBT (either in the form of additional loans to get by on, or at a minimum deferment of their existing loans which still gain interest for those two years).

                      The end result is a graduate who is deeper in debt and knows a very little about a great number of sub-specialties in their field. None of this, mind you, has been driven by the workplace demands, nor the state boards of ANY of these professions. It has been driven by the schools of Medicine, the schools or nursing, the schools of pharmacy, the schools of physical therapy, the schools of dentistry, etc... They market that they are turning out a "better" prepared healthcare professional, when in fact they are only turning out a more EXPENSIVE healthcare professional. One that quite frankly has NO CHANCE of ever using ALL the information they have stuffed into their heads because the amount of information is so great, NO ONE can ever specialize in EVERYTHING ~!

                  • #13
                    I work for a billion dollar international manufacturing industry. I know for a fact that the enrollment in the local trades college for welders is limited. However, with that being said, both my company and our closest competitor hand out applications to all incoming students in the program. Good welders can in fact dictate terms in their interviews.

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      I don't fault any person for 'going for the brass ring'. I fault anyone who allows them to think it will be easy. Thing is, some of them CAN achieve their dreams and if those individuals are held back by pragmatic negativity, they might not. Colleges offer lots of opportunities to gain the practical perspective and skills, but those students will not be attending many sports events.

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        In the business world Return on Investment (ROI) is a big issue. If I invest in a new high-efficient furnace, how long will it take to pay for it with the savings? Well apply that to a 1 year diploma in the business trades ROI and the 4-6 year degrees of university/college degrees and the interest rate of student loans, loss of employment during those year, etc. and one will soon realize that people in their 30's are still paying off student loans. I guess it just depends on whether one wishes to pay schools and banks instead of working at a good trade.

                        At age 62, I have 3 degrees and am employed in none of them.

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