Announcement Module
No announcement yet.

Current BSA Policy Vs local option poll

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
Conversation Detail Module
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Mother Jones has an April 12 article about the LDS that may provide some insight as to why they are conspicuously silent right now on this issue and appear to have not taken part in the survey. Basically there was a huge internal backlash with prop 8 and at best the leadership is gaining some compassion or worst they do not want more negative publicity. That is not to say they are rolling over as i am sure if they feel shoved hard enough they will push back.

    It is very interesting and I suggest you have a look.


    • I concur with the view that as the geezers die off, the young will lead us into the light on this subject. I've seen this same transition with respect to other things as well, like racial segregation. It's one way that death can be a creative and constructive influence. Too bad that it has to work that way.


      • To channel OGE
        "Don't trust anyone over 30." - Jack Weinberg


        • Do you think that membership for gay youth means eagle awards for gay youth? Or are we just assuming that?

          Because if it does, is BSA going to apologize to all youth previous denied the eagle award and go back and award them in arrears? Will there be some sort of press conference like when black veterans of WWII were given the Honor Medal in the 1990's as a corrective action?

          Essentially, that would be BSA putting Eagle Awards on grown, gay adults.

          Will there be lawsuits to have them awarded in arrears to force BSA to do something like this publicly?

          You think they thought of that yet? I don't.


          • Just a curiosity type question...let's say Tommy comes out at 15. He stays in and earns his Eagle Scout with palms. He's a respected leader in his troop and has been through NYLT. He's served on camp staff and is a member of the Order of the Arrow. He also maintains a membership in the camp staff venturing crew. He hits the magic 18 in Boy Scouts and is out, but maintains his membership in Venturing. Now he's 21 and has to kiss the whole thing good-bye. Just a question, will not accept this man as a leader; will you solicit and accept his contributions through Friends of Scouting? If he hits the lotto, will his money be good enough for you when he isn't? Just being curious here.


            • The saddest part of all of this is that the National leadership is incapable of taking and holding a firm stance on this issue/policy. The May policy change on their site is so wishy washy and hypocritical that all it will do is alienate all sides in this debate. In my area three churches ,long time active scouting supporters have suspended all scouting until National comes to some kind of supportable solution to this issue. In our communty the BSA has become the butt of anger, indecisiveness, and a "bad influence on the youth". Parents have been pulling their kids out in droves. Even in my church the parents have begun asking me about alternatives to scouting for our church youth. Bottom line it is time for National to put up and deal with the ramifications or leave the decision entirely to the CO's. Their current methodology will do nothing but lead scouting to a slow agonizing death.


              • On the question of “does anyone know why the LDS was not included on the survey results? Did they voluntarily decide to sit out, and are they (as some are saying) waiting to vote with their feet if the - what do we call it?”, this is a great big mystery.

                I believe I read over the weekend (while camping in the forests, field and streams) that LDS leadership told their Chartered Orgs not to respond to the poll, that they would take care of it at the highest level.

                And that until there was a concrete resolution, there would be no official comment from the top of the LDS about what the LDS Wards, Stakes and units would do.

                On the one hand, perhaps that vote will come in entirely against the Resolution. It is noted that some polls of LDS leaders and/or the results from Councils and Regions that are heavily LDS are in favor of the current policy.

                But on the other hand, it is noted that this Resolution was approved unanimously by the Executive Committee of the BSA, and that there are a significant number of LDS members of the Executive Committee.

                But on the other other hand (under the DRP, we have to have many other other hands, like the Hindu Vedic Supreme God Vishnu), perhaps the unanimous vote to approve the Resolution that will go to the 1400 voters for final determination is similar to a “cloture” vote in the United States Senate, where the Senate might unanimously approve the debating of a bill (brining the bill to the floor) and/or the closing of debate (eliminating any filibuster and allowing and “up or down vote”) . . . and then all go out and defeat the bill . . .

                . . . it all remains to be seen . . .

                That said, given what you might call the “love the sinner” signals from the LDS church recently (the [URL=""][/URL=""] site that launched last winter, for example), the concept of not shunning LDS youth who declare themselves to be homosexual – not shunning them either from the church or the church youth program – makes a lot of sense.

                I suspect that exclusion would be (and is) rare. I suspect that many conservative chartered organizations might want to retain a youth in order that their selected leaders may impart all of the virtues that they believe will be imparted by membership in the organization, since I suspect most would say “we want youth to participate . . . we just don’t want them to have ‘that kind’ of role model”. Or, as it is sometimes said: if homosexuality is a moral choice, then belonging to an organization that fosters good moral choices is the best result for that youth.


                • I've got a novel approached that worked wonders for another great institution that I believe in wholeheartedly - let's allow three-fifths of a gay member, adult and youth, to join the BSA. :-)


                  • In the few corporate shareholder meetings I have attended, the Board always presents their Resolutions, expecting the shareholders to vote "yea" because the Board sees the share holders as seeing the Board as the trusted leaders that Know More Than We Do. When the Shareholders present other resolutions to change policy or corporate direction, the Board inevitably "recommends a NO vote on the following shareholder proposals".
                    So it is here.
                    Our six figure income leaders (remember, this is a non-profit organization) are trying to balance the folks that believe certain behaviors are sinful with the folks that believe we are all God's children and "God don't make no mistakes" as the old Baptist minister said, with the big corporate donors, with the folks that just want to go camping and listen to the wind in the trees (remember Baden-Powell's "church of nature " comment?) with the idea that our children, by and large, don't even give the sexuality issue a second thought.
                    And, still, we are driven, as a species , to perpetuate and "go forth and multiply". Homosexual behavior doesn't do that , directly, hence is seen by some as sort of counterproductive. Doesn't mean you can't be a good dad or mom if your partner is of the same gender.
                    I agree that the CO have always had the right (by contract!) to approve or deny the leaders, for whatever reason, of their units. But have you ever heard of a CO denying the membership of an adulterous hetero? There have been cases where the leadership was denied due to "femaleness" and "skin hue", and "wrong religion", yes?

                    For the BSA to change the "official" membership policy to admit the possibility of the moral rectitude of homosexual inclined folks would be a courageous step (a Scout is Brave) in the face of other beliefs. Sinful behavior is defined by religion, not Law. What is counterproductive in a cooperative, peaceful society is declared unlawful and controlled thereby by rewards and punishments. Sin is punished by God (vengeance is mine, sayeth who?), re-read the book of Job .

                    If Christ is my role model, how else can I behave but allow my brother (and sister?) the benefit of the doubt , and judge them not by how they are, but by their behavior toward their fellow human?


                    • All COs will HAVE to accept registration from openly gay youth if the resolution passes? I think most (but not all) LDS wards and Catholic churches can live with gay youth in their midst, but what is the Southern Baptist Convention units going to do if this passes? It will be just a matter of time before a gay activist teen registers with a troop chartered by the SBC just to cause a stir. The BSA will have to back the gay youth's registration. That would be interesting.


                      • @MattR: I believe Islam also is very much against homosexual acts. Most mainstream religions do.


                        • If all the big three pull out, can the BSA weather the transition ? Will the schools and others come back ? Or does it lead to a permanently smaller BSA ?

                          Other than the meeting space and trailer storage, do the churches provide any other meaningful resources to the troops ?


                          • A good litmus test would be if the church charters Girl Scout Troops then they should have no problem with gays in the BSA. GSUSA allows gay scouts, gay leaders.


                            • Churches don't charter Girl Scout Troops. But they can provide meeting space, sponsor, and promote Girl Scouts.


                              • Surprised no one has commented on this - it looks the LDS church has offered a (somewhat lukewarm) approval of the new resolution today:

                                Church Issues Statement on Boy Scouts of America

                                SALT LAKE CITY

                                For 100 years, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has enjoyed a strong, rewarding relationship with Boy Scouts of America (BSA).

                                Recently, BSA has been reviewing a possible policy change in its standards for membership and leadership. Now that BSA has finished its review process and has proposed a resolution for consideration, the Church has issued the following statement:

                                “Over the past several weeks BSA has undertaken the difficult task of reviewing its membership standards policy. In their own words, this undertaking has been 'the most comprehensive listening exercise in its history.'

                                "While the Church has not launched any campaign either to effect or prevent a policy change we have followed the discussion and are satisfied that BSA has made a thoughtful, good-faith effort to address issues that, as they have said, remain 'among the most complex and challenging issues facing the BSA and society today.'

                                "The current BSA proposal constructively addresses a number of important issues that have been part of the on-going dialogue including consistent standards for all BSA partners, recognition that Scouting exists to serve and benefit youth rather than Scout leaders, a single standard of moral purity for youth in the program, and a renewed emphasis for Scouts to honor their duty to God.

                                "We are grateful to BSA for their careful consideration of these issues. We appreciate the positive things contained in this current proposal that will help build and strengthen the moral character and leadership skills of youth as we work together in the future.”