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Current BSA Policy Vs local option poll

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  • Originally posted by dcsimmons View Post
    Statistics being what they are, survey results are summarized at

    Interesting. That does put a different spin on it, and does help explain the proposed resolution.


    • Where do I congratulate BSA on this exceptional punt?

      There ought to be two resolutions: one for youth and one for adults if they are too afraid to simply have a resolution banning the use of sexual orientation as a reason to deny membership in non-1st Amendment protected units.


      • Originally posted by Sentinel947 View Post
        This is a proposed resolution. Does that mean this is the only resolution?
        Based on every description I've heard so far, yes. The options to presented in May to the voters are adapt this new resolution as written or maintain all current policies without modification.


        • Youth Study Group
          The Youth Study Group (teens 16 to 18) was charged with listening to the voice of youth—both current members and nonmembers. Harris Interactive was contracted to survey both current youth members as well as general population teens. Key findings include:
          Among general population teens and Boy Scouts and Venturers alike, a majority oppose the current Boy Scouts of America membership policy.
          A majority of Boy Scouts and Venturers oppose allowing chartered organizations to follow their own beliefs if that means there will be different standards from one organization to the next.
          According to a majority of current Boy Scouts and Venturers, the current policy does not represent a core value of Scouting.

          The Old Goat Patrol never fails to throw Boy Led out the window at every opportunity.


          • This is exactly what a "cop out" looks like. The majority of youth wants change so the BSA recommends allowing in gay Scouts. The majority of leaders support the current policy so they recommend keeping the ban on gay Scouters. So basically there is no change other than a gay youth can't be denied Eagle Scout. Then what? That gay Eagle Scout must promptly leave the premises because their homosexuality is abhorrent?

            So a core value of Scouting is that gay youth are welcomed with open arms. But once you are an adult you are persona non grata. That makes no sense at all to anyone: conservative, mainstream or liberal.

            How did this recommendation make it out of committee? Certainly the evangelicals must find it unacceptable to condone any homosexuality, even by youth. I thought their stance was that they were going to shut down their scouting program and burn all the unit possessions in the church parking lot if the BSA changes anything.


            • Maybe it's time to move over to Hacker Scouts.


              • My take on this is that it started with the top 70 when they said they wanted a change. They did an informal poll of the councils and came up with the 2/3 want to change it number. They start talking about the change in Feb and the blow back is big, so they figure they'll do a real survey and things will go their way. As the results indicate, it's really a mixed bag. The future implies change is needed but the current membership is on the fence. A little risk analysis - they don't want to walk away with nothing - suggests change the scout policy now and the adult policy can wait.

                It's interesting how they wrote the results page. In the summary of results, the first four items are "people's views are changing or have changed." The fifth and seventh item is that gay scouts would be tolerated now. The sixth item is all by itself stating that a local option is not favored by a majority. I'm not sure that the result details are really covered by the result survey. The result summary I would think would be closer to the details are that the future suggests change (young parents, kids, cubscouts donations) but that the old folks like it as it is. i.e., changing it all at once is too much.


                • Guess I was unaware that neutering was part of becoming a member of national.....

                  What a bunch of whimps.........Make a decision all ready....... This has got to be one of the biggest cop outs ever.

                  So from the membership side......Is it possible to start a vote of "NO CONFIDENCE" and oust the current leadership??????

                  I would live with what ever decision was made......but you have got to be kidding me........


                  • The resolution doesn't make sense if you look at it from a "is homosexuality a moral issue" perspective. However, viewed from the lens of a safety issue, i.e. from the belief that homosexual leaders (i.e. homosexual men specifically) are a safety threat, or to some public relations threat :-) - then it would make sense.

                    I'm not saying I believe it is a good resolution or believe that homosexual leaders are a safety issue but I'm just trying to understand the logic.

                    If passed, I like the idea that the BSA does not defacto exclude youth due to sexuality. This may be an attempt at compromise, a dirty work for the past 10 years or so in our current political climate.


                    • I am, for once, rendered speechless.

                      I will see if I can remedy this situation tomorrow or so, and write something meaningful. For now, the most meaningful I can muster is "aaaaaggggghhhhh."

                      Or words to that effect.


                      • This wouldn't even change the situation for youth all that much; if a youth member has any inclination to continue in scouting as an adult, he'll still have to be in the closet as a boy scout.


                        • 18. Has or will the Boy Scouts review(ed) the “duty to God” standard?

                          No. The Scout Oath begins with duty to God, and the Scout Law ends with a Scout’s obligation to be reverent. Those will always remain core values of the Boy Scouts of America. The values set forth in the Scout Oath and Law are fundamental to the BSA and central to teaching young people to make better choices over their lifetimes.

                          So, at least that won't change.


                          • Congratulations on your Eagle! You are a fine example of the future of our great country. Now go away and don't let the door hit you in the @ss on the way out.


                            • This (rather long thread) started with a poll on the Local Option. That is now irrevocably dead in the water / circling the drain / taking the dirt nap / Fill in metaphor of your choice, as the BSA has stated this is the only resolution that will be offered, and that they will not revisit the issue again. Should we start another thread and poll to see how everyone feels about the new option? I suspect it will be unpopular with both sides, as most compromises tend to be, but will probably pass and people will get used to it.

                              And can I ask - does anyone know why the LDS was not included on the survey results? Did they voluntarily decide to sit out, and are they (as some are saying) waiting to vote with their feet if the - what do we call it? - Mugwump Resolution passes? I have no idea what is going on there.


                              • When you are conducting a survey to help you figure out what to do, you are not "moral." You are not doing what you believe in. You are not leading. You are not standing up for anything. When you need a survey to figure out what your policy is, you are just chasing dollar bills and members.

                                I am an atheist, and I would like to see the policy rescinded, but I would only be satisfied in BSA rescinded all of the membership policy no matter the fallout or destruction it caused, because they realize what they were doing is wrong, and then apologized to everyone wronged in the past and made reparations to all youth denied eagle, all adults previously expelled.

                                The way it is now, they are just pathetic old cowards more worried about money, camps, and their little wood badge club than they are moral men taking a stand on values.

                                This resolution proves BSA is NOT a values based organization.

                                I would have had more respect for my opponents had they simply continued the policy, ignored their critics, and taken the organization deeper into Christianity. At least then they would be looking me in the eye.

                                This resolution, for the first time, makes me think that BSA is not worthy of my energy. Funny, it wasn't until today that instead of seeing them as misguided and old-fashioned, I see them as greedy, selfish, evil, and twisted.

                                Today I am ashamed of my eagle award and ashamed that tomorrow I will wear the uniform.

                                This may be it for me.