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Current BSA Policy Vs local option poll

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  • leting in gays would not work with camp outs and such if this passes given 2-4 years bsa will be history thats the talk

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    • Originally posted by Tim in NJ View Post
      300 million Buddhists worldwide don't constitute a major religion? Prior to the mid 1970's, there was no established ban on gays in the BSA, and I cannot see any justification for the policy outside of picking and choosing which religious beliefs that they want to follow as a "completely nonsectarian" organization.
      I am not sure I follow your logic. I get that BSA, as was the US traditionally, was seen as a "Christian". That has clearly changed with the emphasis on moving away for faith-based services only for Christians over the last twenty years. As someone who was in Scouting as a kid and saw how Christian-oriented it was and came back to be a Scouter 10 years ago, I can clearly see the change to accepting all faiths. Heck, most BSA services I attend are very non-denominational. Second, I am having an issue following when you and Rick_in_CA say BSA is "primarily a Christian organization" following those beliefs and values. There are many major religions that do not ascribe to homosexuality as being accepted, so I would argue that BSA is more aligned with the major religions -- as much as anyone can align with everyone these days -- than they are solely a Christian organization.

      I am still curious what specific policies BSA has pushed in the last 20 years that have been solely pro-Christian?



      Comment


      • Originally posted by packsaddle View Post
        I'm not sure about the "solely pro-Christian" thing but BSA sure as heck DID single out the UUA (non-Christian faith) for exclusion of their religious award when they merely disagreed with the membership policy.
        Well that's the lovely thing about membership organizations, you can always leave and start your own if you want or find another that fits your belief system. If I don't like AARP I can find another senior's group to belong to. Don't like my college because they encourage anti-conservative or liberal values? I can find myself a college that fits my belief system without forcing the obvious majority of people at said college to conform to mine.

        Comment


        • I think some people are misunderstanding my question. I am actually asking a question.

          I have had several discussions with scouters about the nonsectarian stance of the BSA, and had several scouters tell me that the BSA is a Christian organization, and that nonsectarian means the same as nondenominational. I understand even the BSA's Religious Relationships Committee referred to the BSA as a Christian ecumenical organization (in a letter to the UUA back in the late 90s). This differs from my understanding of what a nonsectarian BSA is.

          So I am asking, what does "nonsectarian" (in the BSA context) mean to you?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by packsaddle View Post
            On the other hand, if BSA does change the policy....are you going to exercise that freedom you just described?
            Darn right I will. I will find a unit that "keeps to the code".

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            • Originally posted by Tim in NJ View Post
              Ok, I'll go for the low-hanging fruit: the very policy we have been debating has been pro-Christian. The exclusion of avowed homosexuals from the program certainly was created (and specifically affirmed just last summer) to align with the teachings of many larger Christian denominations.
              I asked for a BSA policy that was SOLELY Christian. You telling me Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddists all embrace homosexuality and Christians are the only Visigoths? Please.

              Comment


              • Why don't ask, don't tell don't work...

                Here's a woman who died:
                http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/dis...&pid=163314539

                Now, since her daughter was listed as "daughter, Carla (Julie)", she was fired from job at a Catholic school.
                It's even possible the obit was written by some other family member and she didn't even know she would be outed.
                Telling gay members to just keep their mouths shut will work just as well, as in not well at all.

                Comment


                • The poll presents an unrealistic option.

                  The Supreme Court decision made it clear that BSA retained a right to it's policy of rejecting homopsexuals because this was a consistant, national policy.

                  If BSA proposes to adopt a local option policy, that exemption would very likely go away, and at a minimum it would open BSA to a whole nother round of legal challenges which would very likely require yet another Supreme Court decision upholding BSA's right to decide it's membership policies. And whether the USSC would bail out BSA yet again when BSA opened another can of worms is open to question at best.

                  The REAL option is maintaining the current policy or being subjected to all the state and local laws that prohibit any discrimination against homosexuals. Do you want EVERY church with a Scout unit to be REQUIRED to accept homosexuals as youth leaders?

                  Put THAT in your poll and let's see what kind of numbers it generates.

                  Comment


                  • I'll just leave this here.

                    [URL="http://scoutingmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/proposed-membership-standards-resolution.pdf"]http://scoutingmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/proposed-membership-standards-resolution.pdf[/URL="http://scoutingmagazine.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/proposed-membership-standards-resolution.pdf"]

                    Comment


                    • Sentinel947 posted the BSA release, here is the reporting from CNN:

                      http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/19/us/boy...iref=allsearch


                      (CNN) -- The Boy Scouts of America would no longer deny membership to youths on the basis of sexual orientation alone, but would maintain its ban on openly gay adult leaders, under a proposal it is considering, the group said Friday. The organization's executive committee made the proposal, which is expected to be presented to the Boy Scouts' voting members in May. "If approved, the resolution would mean that 'no youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone.' The BSA will maintain the current membership policy for all adults," Boy Scouts public relations director Deron Smith said.

                      So a gay Scout can stay in, possibly a gay Venturer (I assume). They can earn Eagle (or Quartermaster, etc.). They can have the highest rank and honor - but they can't be an adult volunteer.

                      Baby steps, but there is an inherent contradiction here. This solves a little bit (no more PR on denying a boy his Eagle for being gay), but it won't solve the Lesbian Tiger Mom issue.


                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Horizon View Post
                        So a gay Scout can stay in, possibly a gay Venturer (I assume). They can earn Eagle (or Quartermaster, etc.). They can have the highest rank and honor - but they can't be an adult volunteer.
                        That don't make no sense. He's a whole enough person to Eagle but not to volunteer?

                        This change, if approved, will call the bluff (or non-bluff) of the Chartered Orgs who threatened to pull if any out gays were allowed in. It will also continue to piss off adults and corporations who see BSA as still discriminating. So once again, BSA has sort of done nothing, if approved.

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                        • Read the numerous comments on Bryan on Scouting on Facebook, as well as the comments directly on the Scouting Magazine site. Almost all are agreeing that this resolution is almost laughable and nothing more than trying to please everybody. Just do not know how much longer I can work in the trenches with the constant shadow of this foolishness over my head. But,will continue to try and simply do the program on the unit level and try to keep the politics at bay.

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                          • Statistics being what they are, survey results are summarized at http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/con...n/Summary.aspx.

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                            • I agree, a completely absurd resolution. Written by total cowards. Why not give the delegates a resolution worth voting on? Maybe because they knew it would pass and anger the conservatives?

                              I was afraid that the resolution would be a complete cop out. Cowards.

                              Comment


                              • This is a proposed resolution. Does that mean this is the only resolution?

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