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Oh those pesky assult rifles......

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  • #31
    What is the number one rule in a gunfight?

    Have a gun.


    Had one encounter at the remote takeout of a paddling trip with 8 scurvy looking motorcyclists. We had three men and three good-looking women. I had no weapon. My buddy's stainless revolver would have evened the odds.

    Out in the woods with 12 boys in my charge; would it not be irresponsible for me to NOT have a gun?

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    • #32
      GSDAD.....

      I don't live in fear, but I have common sense...... The night I drew, It was after midnight and I had to go get baby supplies, poor planning I was out......I knew it was a bad idea......

      The dialog needs to start somewhere with some concessions. I am sorry your afraid that sensible regs mean the beginning of the end.

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      • #33
        Wow, I find it amazing how insecure everyone is......Missed joebobs post.

        I take the troop backpacking 3 times a year and have never taken a weapon beyond a small swiss army knife with me, ya know the little blue single blade one.....We have never had a problem, never a need for one.....


        So what in the world is everyone afraid of????

        So is this like the Micheal Moore docudrama Bowling for Columbine????? NRA and media marketing fear???????

        I am absolutely speechless that adult men are afraid to take a group of boys to the woods with out a gun...

        Sitting here shaking my head.

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        • #34
          "So what in the world is everyone afraid of????"
          Answer: the rest of us.
          And I'm criticized for my dark view of things? No apologies here. At least I'm honest enough to admit it.

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          • #35
            My Definition of Assault Weapon: Any military grade or copy of a military grade weapon and; any rifle, handgun or other weapon that is being used with a clip, drum or other ammunition holder carrying more than 6 rounds (at 6 rounds or under, the gun would not be an assault weapon - switch to a clip of 7 or more rounds and your non-assault weapon becomes an assault weapon).

            My deer hunting rifle holds 5 rounds - I've never needed more than 2. I don't need 10 rounds to go deer hunting, let alone 30.

            Guns have one purpose and one purpose only - to kill. Knives, cars, ropes - all have other purposes. Can you kill with them? Heck, you can kill with just about anything, depending on the victim and how intelligent or devious you are, but they are not designed to kill - it's an accidental function of their true function.

            In Connecticut, 26 people were gunned down by a maniac. In China, 22 people were knived by a maniac. The difference? 22 people in China are alive because although knives can kill, they really aren't a very effective weapon of mass death.

            If you are one of those people that like to counter gun deaths with deaths by car, knives, ropes, etc., then you should be one of those people that should never be allowed access to or ownership of a gun - never, ever. You are way too immature and ignorant to own a gun. In my opinion.

            Narrowly interpreting the 2nd Amendment? I haven't seen any legislation calling for amending the 2nd Amendment. I've seen lots of legislation calling for amending the 1st Amendment by people that don't like the freedoms that grants us. What I see are people wondering just when we're going to look at the 2nd Amendment and notice the words "Well-regulated" and start to take that part of it seriously as well. No reasonable person or group is calling for an outright ban on all guns but unreasonable people and groups are claiming that any restrictions on guns or any requirements for registration, or licensing, or education is as bad as a ban on guns. That's just not true - its part of being well-regulated.

            I'm fine with banning clips, etc. that hold more than 6 bullets. I'm fine with banning private ownership of military and military-style weapons.

            I'd like to see the gun show loopholes closed. I'd like to see not only a requirement that you get a "firearm owner's identification card" in order to possess a gun, I'd like to see an educational component added on gun safety in order to get that FOID card. I'd like to see every gun titled like a car, and registered with the state - and that the title gets sent to the state when the gun is sold, given as a gift, stolen or destroyed with the new owners info sent to the state to send a new title out. I'd like that to be retroactive - every gun currently in existence in the US get titled, even those in museums. Give folks 10 years to get it done - afterwards, if found with an untitled gun, the gun gets confiscated and the person is fined $25,000 per untitled gun. I'd like to see an end to concealed weapons - go to open weapons - if you carry a gun on your person or in your car, either the gun, or some other indicator that you are armed, must be visible at all times. Failure to do so? Automatic 10 years in prison with no parole. Honest gunowners will never face that penalty - only criminals.

            As Beavah states so well, the idea that we need guns to protect us from our government is hogwash. That hasn't been a legitimate argument for decades. When your government can target you with a drone strike from 5,000 miles away, there's really no "Red Dawn" scenario that will ever be successful.

            Self protection? You're more likely to be shot by a relative or by yourself than some stranger coming up to rob you. Speaking of which, years ago, I was asked to help a guy from the IL Rifle Association give a demonstration on why Illinois should allow concealed weapons. The point of the demonstration was to show how people that are armed can defend themselves against muggers. I role-played the mugger for him. The first 8 times we did the role-playing, I "shot" him before he had a chance to pull or aim his gun - he complained that this wouldn't happen in real life. He gave up after the 9th role-play when I walked right up to him and, without saying a word, "shot" him in the the back of the head. I think I made my point very well, and he regretted choosing me to do the role playing.

            All that being said, I'm not anti-gun. I hunt - I use guns. In a survival situation, I'll use my gun for what it's for, hunting for meat. I like shooting clays. I like shooting at targets. But I don't need to be armed every single second of the day in order to feel safe. If you're feeling that paranoid and unsafe, then frankly, you're one of those people that shouldn't be carrying a gun because you aren't likely to have the proper judgment needed in a time of crisis. Folks might remember the Arizona shooting - there was a person in the crowd who was armed - I'd hold him up as an example of a responsible gun owner. Why? Because he quickly assessed the situation and made the decision that him pulling his gun and blasting away would have been even worse.

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            • #36
              Basementdweller asks:

              So what in the world is everyone afraid of????

              I'm afraid of someone who would walk into a school and gun down innocent children without remorse.

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              • #37
                Tampa, you obviously didn't read the second article. The writer advocates a volunteer force consisting of retired police and military personnel, trained and certified AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE! And before you say it wouldn't work let me remind you that there are probably millions of volunteers working in the classrooms every day.

                Also the vast majority of the country is protected by volunteer fire and EMS who train and equip themselves largely AT THEIR OWN EXPENSE! (not yelling , just emphasis). We trust a teenage kid with dragging our family members out of a burning house or a car salesman who volunteers to be a paramedic with giving us life saving drugs but we can't trust a retired police officer or Marine with the safety of our children? So quoting salaries and numbers of paid police officers per school is irrelevant to my point. As I said before we can continue doing nothing, or doing things that have been proven not to work or we can deal with the problem. I'm reminded of the definition of insanity.

                Pass more laws if you like but ask yourself how's that gun free school zone working out?

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                • #38
                  I'm afraid of those who presume to think they know what I "need" and what I don't.

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                  • #39
                    Well Calico,
                    How many regimes would you like me to name that disarmed their subjects before killing them? And I can think of at least one rag tag group that beat the greatest military power in the world with little more than single shot rifles.

                    We need to go back to the "Well regulated militia" or well trained volunteer soldier and put him to work protecting our children. He will gladly do to for free to give back to his country.


                    (This message has been edited by Eagle732)

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                    • #40
                      Basement,

                      So do you also reject first aid kits, life jackets and helmets? The same thinking (and fear) go into carrying those as carrying guns. I don't carry a gun, but I have them in the house. Why? Hurricanes. Not quite zombies, but there is a possibility that I will be in my house without power or method to contact the police for a week or so.

                      There are no reasonable gun restrictions that would have stopped this last horrific mass killing. The mother was apparently a very law-abiding citizen with a lot of money. There was no reason to disallow her from owning guns.

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                      • #41
                        Wow the list of paranoid scouters grows.....Shocked....


                        So Pack did you ever take a gun on a boy scout camp out just because you were concerned or felt the need to be prepared??????


                        the most hysterical part of this entire thing is I live in the hood, ghetto or bad area and I live in less fear than you guys that live in small towns and the suburbs.....

                        Amazes me to no end.

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                        • #42
                          BE PREPARED!

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                          • #43
                            Carrying a first aid kit is paranoid?

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                            • #44
                              Basementdweller,
                              First I'd like to apologize. For a long time I had you placed in Baltimore for some reason, not Ohio. Alternatively, (and OGE will appreciate this) I was thinking Boise.

                              In answer to your question, I really wish I could say that not only do I pack my heat on every backpack trip but I also make sure that the other leaders do too. A really wise person once said, and I made all my students write this down, "better safe than sorry".

                              Sadly, in reality I can't make the above claim. I've never packed a firearm, EVER, on a scout outing. (for some reason I thought there was something in G2SS with regard to this, I must be wrong). On the AT, the trail ethic is one in which fellow backpackers are asked NOT to carry. I honor that ethic. I do understand that others dishonor it. To me the greatest threat on the trail is from a bee sting or a cut, maybe a fall or a burn. 'Be Prepared' has greater relevance to being able to respond with first aid than to an attack by a fellow hiker. I'm beginning to think my world is actually brighter than for some others of us. And that, my friend, is TRULY sad.

                              Edit: referring to the next post...like I said, some dishonor it.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

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                              • #45
                                The Appalachian Trail Conservancy "strongly discourages hikers from carrying firearms" but they have no legal authority to not allow you to do so. They have no enforcement or regulatory authority. You have every right to carry as long as you abide by the law in the jurisdiction you are in.

                                I have hiked the entire AT and then some. I had one instance where I was wishing I had a gun. The only other situation I was aware of during my 5 continuos months on the trail last year was when one of the young ladies in our group was almost abducted by some local drunks while we were in town. She fought back and got away. Never underestimate the power of a thru-hiking gal!(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

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