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  • #46
    I was a cub scout for a couple of years about 45 years ago.

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    • #47
      I thought it was common knowledge around here that Merlyn is not a Scouter.

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      • #48
        Ahhh.


        [get off the personal stuff and back on topic] (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

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        • #49
          Well according to google there are 4 states with issues on the ballot for November. They are Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, and Washington.

          I guess its just a matter of waiting to see what the voters have to say this time around.

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          • #50
            Of course, there are other ways of passing laws in this country besides having a public referendum, which isn't even the usual way. Every state has a legislature, and the legislature passes a bill and the governor either signs it or vetoes it. That is how same-gender marriage was adopted in New York, the governor signed a bill that had been passed by the legislature. I do not believe New York has a mechanism for putting laws adopted by the legislature up for public vote, as Washington and Maryland evidently do, because same-gender marriage was legislatively adopted in those states but is being challenged by referendum.

            Here in New Jersey the legislature also passed a same-gender marriage bill, but the governor (who is about to have his Moment in the Spotlight at the Republican convention tonight) vetoed it. In fairness, he did say during his campaign that he would veto such a bill, and he did. In New Jersey we also do not have a mechanism for having a referendum to challenge a bill passed by the legislature or to pass legislation directly without legislative action. (Constitutional amendments and issuance of state bonds do require voter approval, but even then the legislature must pass them first.)

            I do wonder about some of these states that seem to have referendums on everything, like California. Why even bother having a legislature?

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            • #51
              NJ, we ask ourselves that regularly, especially since they are as useless as the federal reps. It is going to be interesting this fall when the "you know what" hits the fan if the governor's tax proposal is voted down again.

              Of course, even when something is passed by referendum, it is immediately sent to the courts where more often than not, it seems, the omniscient judge(s) throw it out. But the weather is great most of the time, and doesn't everybody like a bit of "shake and bake"? It helps that I am old, was raised by lessons from the depression that I took to heart. You know, there are needs and wants; if you can afford the needs only, that is what you do.

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              • #52
                "Well according to google there are 4 states with issues on the ballot for November. They are Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, and Washington.

                I guess its just a matter of waiting to see what the voters have to say this time around."

                The Minnesota case is unusual in that it will allow the voters to decide whether the current statutory declaration of marriage as between a man and a woman should be included as an amendment to the state constitution - this is expressly to prevent the rule by judicial activism that has sought to eliminate the will of the electorate.

                The legislature provided a specific title for the ballot measure, Recognition of Marriage Solely Between One Man and One Woman, but the Democrat Secretary of State, Mark Ritchie, decided, all on his own, to rename the ballot measure Limiting the Status of Marriage to Opposite Sex Couples. He was taken to court over this, and the state supreme court just slapped down Ritchie and slapped him down hard:

                "In a victory for Republican lawmakers and allied groups, the Minnesota Supreme Court has ruled that two constitutional amendments will be presented to voters in November in the form the GOP-majority Legislature intended.

                In two 4-2 rulings Monday, Aug. 27, the court dismissed a challenge to the wording of the proposed voter ID question and rejected Democratic Secretary of State Mark Ritchies attempts to rewrite the titles of the voter ID and marriage amendment questions.

                We conclude that when the Legislature has included a title for a ballot question in the bill proposing a constitutional amendment, the appropriate title the secretary of state must provide for that ballot question is the title designated by the Legislature, the court wrote. Ritchie exceeded his authority by substituting titles of his own for the ones passed by the Legislature, it said."

                http://www.twincities.com/ci_21410796/minnesota-supreme-court-rejects-secretary-state-wording-constitutional

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                • #53
                  "So are we dealing with the very vocal minority??? "

                  I'd have to say so, yes. Polls pretty consistently show the country is pretty well split nearly 50/50 on the issue of gay marriage, with more recent polls showing a gradual trend toward acceptance. Yet, every time it's makes it to the ballot, voters have so far rejected the legality of the concept. This is mainly because at best, maybe 60% of eligible voters actually excercise their right to do so. In this case, 50.1% of that 60%, or 30.5% of all voters can decide an issue,(or decide who gets elected.)

                  So, even though a plurlity of the population, maybe even a majority hold an opinion, only 30.5% actually decide. That vocal minority is not the "liberal" media, or the 2-4% of the population that might be gay, or the 49 - 51% that might accept gay marriage, it's the 30.5% that shows up to vote. That's the civic lesson in all this.

                  SA

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                  • #54
                    Half of life is just showing up. -- Hunter S. Thompson

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                    • #55
                      Merlyn says:

                      Half of life is just showing up. -- Hunter S. Thompson

                      Hmmm. Do you have a "reliable source" that attributes that to Hunter Thompson? I have read most of his books and don't remember that as being one of his, and have been hearing different versions of it for years without his name being connected with it. (The version that is popular among attorneys I know is: "Half the battle is just showing up.") A Google search indicates several different attributions (including Thompson) but mostly just uses of the saying with no attribution at all.

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                      • #56
                        No, I don't; Thompson seems be the most common attribution when there is one.

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                        • #57
                          (duplicate post deleted)(This message has been edited by Merlyn_LeRoy)

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                          • #58
                            I've seen that attributed to HT before as well but I've seen all sorts of sayings attributed incorrectly so who knows?
                            I've never understood what it means anyway. Where is the other half of life? Is it here already or is it still on the way?

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                            • #59
                              If half the battle is just showing up (attributed to Hunter S. Thompson) and knowing is half the battle (G.I. Joe), then victory is virtually assured by knowing and showing up.

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                              • #60
                                ""So are we dealing with the very vocal minority??? "

                                I'd have to say so, yes. Polls pretty consistently show the country is pretty well split nearly 50/50 on the issue of gay marriage, with more recent polls showing a gradual trend toward acceptance. Yet, every time it's makes it to the ballot, voters have so far rejected the legality of the concept. This is mainly because at best, maybe 60% of eligible voters actually excercise their right to do so. In this case, 50.1% of that 60%, or 30.5% of all voters can decide an issue,(or decide who gets elected.)

                                So, even though a plurlity of the population, maybe even a majority hold an opinion, only 30.5% actually decide. That vocal minority is not the "liberal" media, or the 2-4% of the population that might be gay, or the 49 - 51% that might accept gay marriage, it's the 30.5% that shows up to vote. That's the civic lesson in all this. "

                                A lot of electoral decisions are decided by senior citizens, as they still seem to consider voting a civic duty, and often don't have to deal with working around job hours. They also seem to write a large proportion of cranky letters to the editor.

                                A huge event in the life of many younger voters, apparently is the release of the Halo 4 video game this year, which will have young gamers camping out overnight to get a copy as early as possible, so they can rush home and spend all day playing it and tweeting about it.

                                The release date? Election Day, 2012.

                                I'll be curious to see if this has any effect on voting patterns. Probably not a huge one, but I doubt many 60 year olds will be in line at Best Buys instead of the poll booths.

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