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Trayvon Martin

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  • #16
    "Yah, I think this is the principle source of our national neuroses, eh? Most people think that because something is prevalent on the news that it's prevalent in real life. "


    Not talking National news or something happening in another country. I am talking local news. Used to be a time that gang activity was something that only happened in LA or New Yopk. Now it happens all around us. When I say Us, I mean my county and city.

    And it is not racist to know that there are neigborhoods that- if you are not the same race/color/ ethnic group - it is in your best interest to stay out of those neighborhoods even in the middle of the day.

    Doesn't matter what color or race you are. There ar a great many people in my are who do not care what color you are, what religion you are, or where you are from.

    But you'd be naive to think that just because you are not racist, that others are not. Just because most do not pay attention does not mean all do not.

    Otherwise, this conversation wouldn't ever take place at all.


    Their mindset is not based on yours.

    I too have a great many NASCAR fans who would give you the shirt off their back if you needed it. But I have also witnessed personally, people who attack others just for their choice in driver. And I do not just mean verbally. I am talking about one person simply attcking another for the color and number on their shirt.

    Blood and cuts and LEO being called.

    I also used to be friends with quite a few people until I found out they were racist or bigoted or worse. I do not like people who hate based on race or that think women are inferior just because they are women. I do not condone hatred against anybody just because they are different.

    But there are certain neighborhood that I will not go into , and there are neighborhoods that others shouild not go into.

    Why? Because it's not the nice and polite people who will hurt you, It's the hateful ones who will. It's not the majority who might accept and get along with everybody, it's the ones who do not.

    It's because of plain old stupid arrogance and ignorance.

    But that's what happened to Trayvon isn't it?

    At least everything I have read about him so far.

    He got shot because he was suspicious. Since when did walking make you suspicious? I'll bet you walking wasn't it. I bet it was skin color.

    And regardless of skin color, religious beliefs or ethnic background, if you follow somebody, then shoot them becaus e"something wasn't just right" instead of a real crime and acting in self defense....it's murder as far as I am concerned.

    If Mr neighborhood watch thought something suspicious was going on, why didn't he cal the real police and let them do theiur job?

    Cause he was racist and actd out of stupidity and arrogance.

    Now, you tell Trayvon that it wasn't prevalent in real life.

    But againm..me? I do not judge bases on color, race, sexual orientation or religious belief. I judge based on personal interaction.





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    • #17
      Personally I believe the incident is less about race than ignorance and stupidity.
      This was a mixed race neighborhood. Seeing people of several races walking about would not have been unusual. Trayvon was someone that Zimmerman didn't recognize. For reasons of his own he chose to pursue an confront Trayvon, with a weapon. I'd like to see an arrest, if only for the legal process to figure out if this is a crime or not. If not, it should be.

      SA

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      • #18
        Eamonn, I will try to answer your question. To me, the fact that you feel unease or fear is the important aspect of your life. Whether or not that causes you to be labeled a racist is much less important. It is what you feel in your heart and the underlying reasons for those feelings that are most important and only you can truly address those because only you can truly understand the truth of what they are and why you feel them.

        In a word, 'no', those feelings don't necessarily make you a racist.
        I might feel similar things if I walked into one of the local biker bars full of white skinhead types - IF I didn't already know some them as friends and colleagues, lol. Fear and unease are something that comes from the context and that context might be almost any unfamiliar situation.

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        • #19
          "That could have been any of our children, any one of our scouts, out walking while wearing "suspicious" clothing."

          This is what I think people are missing. Since when is it acceptable (under any condition) to follow, corner, and shoot a child (or an adult either) just because he's wearing a hoodie?

          Are people familiar with the history of "defended communities" from northern city suburbs in the 1950s & 60s? How is what this man in FL did, any different?

          And does anybody at all think that (all other conditions being equal) if the child had been white, and the shooter black, we'd even be talking about how the shooter hadn't been arrested yet, a month after the murder?



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          • #20
            "And does anybody at all think that (all other conditions being equal) if the child had been white, and the shooter black, we'd even be talking about how the shooter hadn't been arrested yet, a month after the murder?
            I don't have an answer.
            I would hope that we can learn from all of this, rise up and become stronger.
            Ea

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            • #21
              I heard on the radio there is more information coming out on this.

              Zimmerman called in the police, they told him to leave the area and he was returning to his vehicle.

              Eye-witness saw two men fighting, one was down on the ground being beaten, he was wearing a read sweatshirt. The other was wearing a light colored hoodie. It would appear from the evidence that with the grass stains on the back of the red sweatshirt that this is correct. The person being beaten had head injuries on the back of his head indicating he was on the ground. He suffered facial injuries and a broken nose.

              Zimmerman was the one wearing the red sweatshirt.

              There is more to this story than the media is letting out. When we get to the pure evidence of the case, I'm thinking this story is going to change a lot.

              The reason Zimmerman has not been charged is not because of the Florida law, racism or anything else other than the evidence and eye-witness account indicates he might have been the victim.

              I feel sorry for the poor young lad who was killed, but I'm thinking there is a lot more to the story than what is being portrayed in the media at this point. 95% of black male murders/killings are done by other blacks. This rare incident unfortunately will always make big news for its racial possibilities to sell newspapers, but I'm going to wait out the evidence before I jump to conclusion when it comes to media hype-reporting slanted to gain the biggest buck.

              Stosh

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              • #22
                This whole case has made me really angry. I am white but as part of my job and education I usually work in the black community and have a degree from a historically black college. I have come to realize that yes I have my prejudices but most folks do. The point is to be aware of them and rise above them.

                (I bet the guy Zimmerman will claim "I don't have a prejudiced bone in my body". It reminds me of a local school principal who, in response to a parent complaint about a bullying incident stated "In my 13 years as Principal I never been aware of ONE case of bullying.")

                What I am angry about is the stand your ground law is messed up. I was in the jury pool for a recent trial on a similar case and got a good 10 hours lesson on it. It is pretty easy for a citizen to arm himself, put him into a situation outside his home or street, brandish a weapon to a stranger ordering him to stop, and then kill him claiming the unarmed man was threatening him. It is hard to make even manslaughter stick because of the statute.

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                • #23
                  So we are at the point where Trayon had zimmerman on his back pounding the stuffing out of him. Never heard that report.... Wonder why the media neglected to report it if it is true. I could see him getting blown away for it......



                  Ya know I am more comfortable after dark in the quikie mart parking lot than I am at a FOS presentation.....The first the potential for being robbed is present but not certain. The second I will be robbed for sure and made to feel guilty if I don't give. But hey I get to keep the pen.....

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                  • #24
                    My issue with the whole thing is (from the information I have heard or read) that the Neighborhood watch person was instructed by the 911 operator
                    (or whatever agency he reported to) to cease following the Youth who was walking. The incident between these two should have ended there.

                    The youth possibly wound up beating on the neighborhood watch person, well, perhaps that opens the door to the shooting.(Read following sentence,please)

                    But Watch persons are there to Observe and Report, not directly intervene - and having reported, he was told to disengage - he failed to do so. This fact alone would seem to make him criminally liable to me. But, then I'm no lawyer.

                    I'm hearing there are more facts out there, but if having made a proper report, he was told to disengage, anything that occurred after that doesn't seem to influence my opinion on this unless the youth was observed, during the report, performing some kind of assault on someone else not previously mentioned which drove the ongoing intervention. But without some key like that this door seems closed to me - the Watch person failed to follow the instructions given by his reporting authority and began operating outside his legal protection..., But again I'm no lawyer. And all the facts aren't in.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      There aren't enough facts available to make a quality judgement.

                      It's entirely possible that when told to disengage Zimmerman yelled something provocative at the kid and then went back to his SUV. Before getting back to the SUV the kid starts beating on him and Zimmerman has to pull the trigger to get him to stop.

                      It's also possible Zimmerman initiated the scuffle, started getting beat down and then resorted to his firearm out of cowardice.

                      This was a killing is probably not in cold blood so much as the result overzealous watchman who offended a young man to the point of him reacting violently.

                      Again, there's no knowing that until we get more information.

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                      • #26
                        Eamonn, Man has always had a distrust of "the other". It's so old sociologists are still trying to figure out how it started.

                        If someone wasn't concerned in some situations, I'd think they were dumb.

                        But it doesn't have to be about race, groups of rowdy youth (or inebriated people) do dumb things, whatever their race. But it shouldn't drive you to fear - it should drive you to continue with being aware of your surroundings and having a plan to follow if anything were to occur.

                        Unfortunately for Trayvon, he ran into someone who didn't allow him to just keep walking.
                        (This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

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                        • #27
                          I wonder how all this would have ended if Zimmerman had not been armed.

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                          • #28
                            " it should drive you to continue with being aware of your surroundings and having a plan to follow if anything were to occur"
                            Gunny2862
                            As you can imagine working where I do with the convicts all around being aware of the surroundings and what's going on is a must. - Kinda gives a real meaning to "Be Prepared".
                            I think what is irking me about all of this is that I was happy thinking that I had my feelings about race all tied up, nice and neat.
                            I liked to think that I didn't have any feelings of racism what so ever.
                            Now? I'm not so sure.
                            The details of what happened that night will I think all come out.
                            As I posted, I don't know what really went down.
                            I do know that I'm left looking at how I feel.
                            Why do I feel more uneasy with a group of black youths walking toward me than a group of white youths?
                            If I have this feeling do the police also have it and does this mean that black youth are treated unfairly?
                            Ea.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Basement: "Wonder why the media neglected to report it if it is true."

                              Because whether people want to acknowledge it or not, the media is biased. There is a reason the police have not arrested him and it is due to evidence obtained at the scene.

                              http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-attorney-friend-speak-trayvon-martin-incident/story?id=15999256

                              Sonner (Zimmerman's attorney) insisted that Zimmerman is not a racist, pointing out that he and his wife mentored for two black children for free.

                              "When I asked this mother [of the mentees], who trusted [Zimmerman and his wife], and she's an African-American, if she trusted George Zimmerman, she said she did, and I asked her if there was anything that caused her to believe that she was a racist, and she said, 'Absolutely not.' And I said, went further, 'Did you ever hear him use racial slurs in any time that you'd been around him?' And she said, 'no' as well," Sonner said.

                              In other news, here is one response to the situation.

                              http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-panther-rage-10g-capture-trayvon-killer-article-1.1050370


                              The new Black Panther Party offered a bounty of $10,000 Saturday for the capture of a Florida neighborhood watch captain who killed unarmed teen Trayvon Martin.

                              An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, leader Mikhail Muhammad said after announcing the reward for George Zimmerman at a protest in Sanford, Fla.

                              Muhammad called on 5,000 black men to mobilize and capture the neighborhood watch volunteer.

                              If the government wont do the job, well do it, Muhammad said, leading chants that included freedom or death and justice for Trayvon.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                So what do you tell a 17 year old Scout who is being followed by a 23-year old male stranger and who has no idea why the guy is following him? What do you tell him to do when that stranger confronts him? Though the majority of crimes against children and teenagers are committed by people that know them, have we forgotten that there have been some pretty high profile cases of kids being abducted by strangers for nefarious purposes? Have we forgotten that John Walsh of America's Most Wanted got his start after the abduction of his son Adam and that Walsh lives in Florida? Have we forgotten how heavily we teach "stranger danger" in our school system?

                                Though we know, in retrospect, that Zimmerman called 911, Trayvon didn't know that - what might he have been thinking of when he was acosted by Zimmerman? I imagine I'd be trying to fight the guy off too.

                                All of the reports I've read has Zimmerman calling the police from his car, and being advised by Police Dispatch not to follow after saying he would follow the kid. In my book, once Zimmerman got out of his car and started to follow Trayvon, Zimmerman became the agressor, and it was Trayvon who was "standing ground", not Zimmerman. Is the "Standing Ground" law so flawed that the original agressor can claim protection under that law if their victim starts to get the better of them? If I were to start assaulting someone and they stood ground by pulling a gun, and I pulled my own gun and shot them first, can I really claim I wa standing ground or self-defense?

                                I think what's making people really upset about this whole thing is that it's turned the true victim into the criminal and the criminal into the victim. Yes, I call Zimmerman a criminal - in any other circumstance, a 23 year old man confronting a 17 year old boy who is doing nothing but walking back to the home he is visiting after walking to the store, would have been arrested and jailed on the spot.(This message has been edited by calicopenn)

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