I wonder what the opinions of the other parents is????????
You forget them.
As a parent of a young lady currently in GS, I would be upset if she was allowed to join our group.
This is not her original group and she really has no right to demand anything.
I am really surprised by the liberal attitudes. Yes she made a mistake and now there is a price to be paid by her. IMHO she gave up the rest of her youth by bringing another life into the world.
So is there not any penalties for mistakes any more?
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- Nov 2005
Scoutnut and Fellow Scouters,
I think we somewhat agree. But we are stating the same concept differently. If you could re-read my previous post again.
Scoutnut, you may have meant to type
"As I mentioned, Heather can decide not to accept this girl into the Troop." in your first response, but you typed/mentioned this in your first response. "it is NOT YOUR decision who watches her child and when."
We seem to agree now, but your first response appeared vague and conflicting with HeatherK question.
I fully admitted, I do not know the application process of the GSUSA. But of course, I am familiar with the application process of the BSA. I attempted to state if the GSUSA application process is similar to the BSA process then.
If the application processes are similar, I agreed HeatherK cannot state if the Senior Girl Scout can be a girl Scout.
But, if the processes are similar, HeatherK could accept her application into the troop, or decide not accept her application into the troop.
My comparison, in the Boy Scouts, a Scoutmaster cannot say that a Boy cannot become a Scout. (I know, double negative). But a Scoutmaster does not have to accept a boys application into the troop.
Bringing closer to home. I cannot state that a teenage girl or boy (regardless of any circumstance) will never become a Venturer. I can state, that I will not accept that youth into my Crew.
I admit I do not know the GSUSA process. But as Scoutnut stated, "there are some GSUSA Councils that do not allow Troops to limit their membership, and if Heather is in one of those she may have to fight to ban this girl."
I would be surprised if a GSUSA Council or Neighborhood cluster would force HeatherK to accept any girl (regardless of who they are or any circumstances).
Honestly, I want what is best for the girls Heather's neighborhood troop; and I hope the Senior Girl Scout will find a troop to join, if it is HeatherK's troop or another GSUSA troop.
Scouting Forever and Venture On!
Crew21 Adv(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)(This message has been edited by Crew21_Adv)
- Sep 2006
Well, we had this exact same discussion on a GS forum and it got unbelievably nasty.
As a troop leader, I would want to welcome this girl, might have trouble doing it, and I would also tell her that once born, her baby can't come on any outings due to insurance problems. (GS has the worst insurance and nitpikiest policies known to man.) I would also give the other parents a heads up and have a parent only meeting before the girl formally joins. If the parents aren't welcoming of the new girl's mother, I can only imagine what they will say about the girl herself.
It might be one of those situations where you have to play it by ear. Definitely have the SUM and Field Exec, or whatever your first line Council employee is, on hand at the meeting and on speed dial for the next year.
'They are simply young, stupid, think they are invincible, and that things like that only happen to other people.'
I take offense at the stupid part Scoutnut. I was one of those 'stupid' girls. You can say I used poor judgement, heck I will even say "yes it was a mistake", but stupid I am not. I did know what I had done to cause it.
Now having said that, I realized like Basementdweller stated, my youth was over and adult life had started. I personally did not attempt to do youth activities. I was a parent now and I acted like it.
We are in a council which supports the troop leaders decision to accept new girls or not into their troop. If HeatherK is in such a council then she is going to have to do some soul searching. She (and taking her other girls into consideration) is going to have to decide whether or not she could really treat her like the other girls and not a mother/adult (which she will probably be considered legally anyway). Can she have no reservations whatsoever if this girl joins? Don't judge her or her decisions until you face her dilema.
HeatherK, I would not blame you if you decided not to accept her in your troop, and I was 15 when I had my daughter so I can say that.
The previous post speaks volumes. Yes, this girl will know she now has tremendous adult responsibilites. But in a sense of compassion, can't we try to help her retain something of her childhood? Girl Scouts would seem to be a perfect place for this young woman. I would hope girls who are Scouts would be a little more accepting of her. Obviously Grandma is willing to help out. If Girl Scouts can provide a few hours now and then where this new "Mom" can still be a girl, then thank God for the Girl Scouts!
I have made many mistakes in my life. I am grateful that I am not made to remember them and pay for them every minute of every day. Let her join.
Interesting discussion...but I wonder if our opinions would change if we were referring to a boy who was a father, and wanted to join a troop. Are we treating the girl differently because she has to carry the baby until birth? Are we assuming that there is no male in her life to take some responsibility?
Again, interesting topic.....
Narraticong states "I have made many mistakes in my life. I am grateful that I am not made to remember them and pay for them every minute of every day." We are talking about the girl becoming a parent not getting a speeding ticket. You are a parent every minute of every day, whether or not you are 17 or 30. Her priorities are now shifted from herself to her child. Oops did I say her child, yes she will be the parent of a CHILD. It is time for her to grow up! Now if she wanted to give the child up for adoption (and that is a wonderful thing to do because so many people are not capable of having their own baby) then that would be a different story. She would be able to focus on herself again.
since you also posted in BSA section I'm assuming you also have a boy in scouts... so my question to you is:
If the young man who was with her in getting pregnant were a boy scout, should he be told to leave boy scouts?
I personally don't know how I would handle this if it came to be in my girl scout troop... and with having senior and cadette level scouts it could very well happen. I've been reading this thread hoping someone who come out with what National or their Council says. I do believe that this would have to be something that would need to be discussed with the parents and then with the girls to get their opinions. I see pro's and con's for both the girl involved as well as the other scouts, but with it being such a "touchy" subject it would need to be shared to all and please as many as possible - though I know something like this could vary well split one troop into two.
- Nov 2002
I was going to go off on a tirade about "morally straight", until I reviewed the current version of the "Girl Scout Promise" and "Girl Scout Law". Nope...not in there. Never mind.
Obviously with a young man it is physically different. We do not know if he impregnated a young lady unless some one tells on him. The young lady will be showing soon enough.
Your question is perfectly fair.
In the circumstance you provided. They show up for his first meeting with us and announces, unsolicited that his girl friend is pregnant and he is the father. I would have no problem to tell him and his parents to keep moving.
A long time troop member, would be a tougher decision. It would be up to the committee and the parents. Obviously not living up to the scout law.
He would not be going on any trip with the troop even if he stays.
It is my opinion that when you bring a baby into the world your childhood ends welcome to parenthood.
IMHO there is far too many grandparents raising their children's children.
as a mom my response to my kids... yes I know you still can be in scouts, but I'm sorry you now have a child to care for you need to finish school, get a job, and take care of day care before you even begin about thinking about having fun. And that goes for both my daughter or my son if they (or their girl friend) decided not to do adoption. Being adopted as a child, my husband's sister adopting a child, and several other friends have adopted I would highly push for that.
as a scout leader my response is... ok this is a sensitive issue (girl scout term) and will need to be discussed among the girls as well as the adults in this troop. If everyone is okay with her participating in scouts while pregnant or once a mom she will have to still follow all troop rules and that would include no tag-a-longs which means that her baby will not be allowed at an meetings or functions.
So what your saying it is OK for an unwed, under age teen age boy and girl to have sex, bring a child into the world and then still live out their remaining childhood.
My point about the outing is, they should be too busy working or being a parent to go on any.
It is called responsibility.
When my children were baby's my life changed pretty dramatically. You life stops being your own. Time to grow up.
Chai....Boy scouting is different than Girl Scouting.....
Nobody says it is OK for a child to have a child. My guess is the girl would likely be the first to agree. Her life as a teenager has changed drastically. She now has new priorities. Her baby needs to be the focus of her life. We all know that and I think we agree.
But if she were my daughter, I don't think I would want to heap punishment on top of the challenges she has already been given. I would try to support her and her new family as much as possible. They would be my family, too. I would not want her to feel helpless and hopeless and alone with the burden of raising her "mistake". Instead, I would rather help her so that she and her baby might both grow up in an atmosphere of love and support.