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Fun stuff for Webelos at a campout

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  • #16

    Originally posted by jblake47 View Post
    I no longer work on the Cub Scout level due to the changes in the program. What used to be a opportunity for young men to grow and develop a sense of independence and maturity, it is now a family bonding program that seems to work counter to the original focus of scouting. Young Men's Christian Association did the same thing and lost it's original identify along the way. Seems as if BSA is doggedly following that course as well.

    Stosh

    I was never a Cub or Webelos when I was a boy and only got involved with my son but I'd have to agree. Most of my parents still want to have the whole family camp when my Webelos den camps, I don't allow that no siblings and only a single parent (which I discourage). I two families drop scouting because I wouldn't allow siblings on Den camping trips.

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    • #17
      Renax,

      Does your den camp with a troop or do their own camp outs? I know that Webelos dens can camp on their own, but I've only seen them camp with troops, unless it's a district level event, like my district's Webeloree (and even then, the troops staffing the event usually camp with their CO's pack, but not always).

      I ask because what I've seen done with parents attending is the Boy Scout leaders take them away from the Scouts, and start orienting them about the Boy Scout program, focusing on differences. Basically keeping htem occupied and out of the Scouts way of having fun.

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      • #18
        Camping on our own. I would like to have them camp with the Boy Scouts but it just isn't going to happen on a regular basis. We do have one camping trip scheduled with a troop but that's it.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Eagle94-A1 View Post
          Skip,

          Not a daft question at all. Cubs Scouts is considered "family camping," and essentially everyone goes. It's usually Webelos (ages 9 and 10) that they stay with buddies for the first time.

          Believe it or not, it's been only within the last 15-20 years than an emphasis on Cub Scouts camping has taken place. And we still have a lot of folks, some who should know better, that have the attitude that, "Cubs don't need to camp."

          In my neck of the woods, it's only been in the past 6 years that anything like Kingsdown ISC's "Cub Hub" has taken place.

          And there are lots of rules and regs that have to be followed. For example, Cubs can climb, but they cannot abseil (or repel as we call it on this side of the pond), Cubs cannot do moving water boat trips (no raft building and racing in the Channel allowed here), etc.

          For got to add, some packs do not camp at all. The Latter Day Saints do not allow their Cubs to go camping at all, and I know of at least one pack who's Cubmaster has been around so long, she believes :"Cubs don't need to camp."

          Gonna get real interesting June 1st when the new changes, which I am told incorporate a lot more outdoor activities, goes into effect

          Thanks, I really hadn't appreciated that. I'd seen a lot on here about families going along to cub camps but hadn't appreciated that it went as far as being in the same tent.

          I just can't imagine cubs without camping! Beavers (6-7 year olds) camp very rarely here but for cubs most will camp several weekends in a year, it's just seen as part and parcel of being a cub.

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          • #20
            Skip,

            You are correct, kids want camping. My pack is one of the more active packs with 3 camp outs a year, two of which are organized, council ones.

            Our program is really out of date, in fact my old book is almost, (try 95%) the same as my sons' books, and I even complained about the lack of adventure. Luckily that is suppose to be changing.

            On a tangent, parents do the bulk of the work on the CS camp outs I've been on. I know 2 guys who crossed over from Cubs to Scouts left after a few months b/c although they liked to camp, they didn't want to do any of the work. They were so use to the 'rents do the work, they didn't feel they should do any of the cooking or cleaning.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Renax127 View Post
              Camping on our own. I would like to have them camp with the Boy Scouts but it just isn't going to happen on a regular basis. We do have one camping trip scheduled with a troop but that's it.
              As a Troop leader, I can say one trip a year with the Webelos is enough. Webelos and their parents seriously limit what the Boy Scouts can do. We have to limit activities to those Webelos are allowed to do and I end up chasing away the helicopter the entire time. "Yes I know Johny Boyscout might just burn that hamburger. But that's how the Boys learn. By doing, not by watching some adult flip the burgers for them."

              Webelos have Webelos Resident camp, council run weekend camp and a Pack campout. They do not need to be with the Troop more than one time.

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              • #22

                Originally posted by meschen View Post

                As a Troop leader, I can say one trip a year with the Webelos is enough. Webelos and their parents seriously limit what the Boy Scouts can do. We have to limit activities to those Webelos are allowed to do and I end up chasing away the helicopter the entire time. "Yes I know Johny Boyscout might just burn that hamburger. But that's how the Boys learn. By doing, not by watching some adult flip the burgers for them."

                Webelos have Webelos Resident camp, council run weekend camp and a Pack campout. They do not need to be with the Troop more than one time.
                When Webelos are with Boy Scouts they can do whatever the boy scouts are doing (baring age restrictions) As far as the parents go, well that's sort of the Scoutmasters job, to teach the parents what to do/how to handle Boy Scouts. If you aren't comfortable with that that's fine but the attitude that "Webelos need to stay with the Cubs" is one of the problems with keeping boys excited about the program. By the time they are Webelos II they are, by and large, tired of dealing with the Tigers and new parents and if I'm being honest so am I.

                Webelos resident camp has been taken over by allowing the Tiger thru bears at camp with a parent. So now the already second class webelos have their limited class leaders stretched thin teaching tigers as well. Webelos II shouldn't be camping with the pack, they should be learning how to be Boy Scouts. That means camping on their own and with Boy Scouts

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                • #23
                  20 years ago when I was dealing with Webelos campers, I was pretty much on my own with it. No one else was Cub camping at all. I got flack from the Boy Scout leaders too, because they all said that the boys who were exposed to camping too early would be bored with it once they got to the troop. It was all a bunch of hot air as it would be today. The boys all went to Philmont, BWCA, Sea Base, three different summer camps and Eagled.

                  This was also the time when I was the only one in the council teaching outdoor overnight Webelos skills. I quit after many years when the council decided that actually staying overnight wasn't necessary. It was a pretty much waste of time to teach camping skills to someone who has never camped and had no intention of taking their boys out into the woods overnight.

                  After 20 years, things haven't really changed all that much.

                  Stosh

                  Oh, by the way, KOA camping with a Cub Scouting theme isn't really camping..... I could do that kind of camping in my backyard, but without a pool and game room, it wouldn't be as much fun.
                  Last edited by jblake47; 09-02-2014, 09:09 AM.

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                  • #24
                    I don't think that the job of the troop is to take the Webelos camping on a ongoing basis. From a recruiting standpoint it is helpful. But just like Webelos are tired of tigers, boy scouts don't want to be with 9 and 10 year olds. Lets be honest if the troop is doing a lot of stuff with the pack the troop is probably not challenging their scouts enough.

                    I think that the Webelos den leaders need to be taking their scouts on Webelos den campouts. I also think that the a lot of packs need to be doing more camping. I know my nephew's pack doesn't camp. They will mention resident camp but just in passing no one attends it is my understanding that they do not have any family camping opportunities.

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                    • #25

                      Originally posted by Sidney Porter View Post
                      I don't think that the job of the troop is to take the Webelos camping on a ongoing basis. From a recruiting standpoint it is helpful. But just like Webelos are tired of tigers, boy scouts don't want to be with 9 and 10 year olds. Lets be honest if the troop is doing a lot of stuff with the pack the troop is probably not challenging their scouts enough.
                      Webelos II are 4-5 months from being Boy Scouts, so a lot of the boys in the troop will be barely a year older. Not that I would expect a troop to invite the Webs to every camp out more than a single Webelos III type camping trip would be nice. How about inviting the Webs to go on a tune-up hike or canoeing etc. If the boys that crossed over the year before can handle the Web II's probably can too maybe they'll need a little help from the older scouts but then shouldn't those guys be offering to help anyway.

                      Every single camping trip I have ever seen a Troop offer the Webeols might as well be a Pack camping trip for the amount of adventure or Boy Scout flavor they offer. And that has nothing to do with the BSA rules it has to do with the attitude Boy Scout leaders (adult mostly) have concerning the Webelos.

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                      • #26
                        It would seem on the Cub level the WDL and DL's seem to expect Pack personnel, Council personnel and Troops to pick up the slack and take their boys out camping. This is the whole problem that I was upset about 20 years ago. These DL's don't know how to take their boy camping because in many situations, they themselves have never camped. So how does the WDL get his boy's the AOL? Leech off the local troops. If troops are operating at proper Patrol Method style of program, there is no room for the Web II's unless they come and function as another patrol in the troop. Sure they share the troop activities, i.e. campfire, program, etc, but the functionality of the event with camping, eating, sleeping, etc. remains the responsibility of the Den, not the troop! So what they do is make sure every boy has a parent there to take care of them because the Web II DL doesn't want or doesn't know how to do it for the boys in camp.

                        Whenever I hear the Cub leaders remind everyone that they don't need OWLS or BALOO, it only reinforces the premise from which I speak. "I don't need that training because I can always get someone else to do it for me. The troops will take my boys camping because they are interested in having them join the troop so they don't complain."

                        In all sincerity, I would rather have the boys just come and camp and all these untrained, inexperienced leaders and parents can stay at home. Taking care of them, too, makes the job twice as difficult.

                        Stosh

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                        • #27

                          Originally posted by jblake47 View Post
                          It would seem on the Cub level the WDL and DL's seem to expect Pack personnel, Council personnel and Troops to pick up the slack and take their boys out camping.
                          Stosh
                          Some might but I certainly do not. I would like the troop to take the Webs camping because, by the rules, they can do more fun things when with Boy Scouts. Which honestly if the one trip they invited the Webs on was fun for them that would do way more them than multiple trips. Do I think the restriction on the Webelos activates are silly yes but I have decided I am not going to disobey them when there is a fairly simple fix. A troop Guide as PL for a bunch of visiting Webs sounds ok, though I would think a Den Chief would have been a better idea (though around here at least that just isn't going to happen).

                          I don't think Web II's should be camping with the pack, going to Cub-o-ree etc, (council events here are always a circus) It's a step backwards for them. As far as me camping goes, I have taken Owls, IOLS, Baloo, and was a Boy Scout and have camped regularly my entire life. I don't need the Boy Scouts to do anything I would just like a little less attitude about Webelos from them.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Renax127 View Post

                            Some might but I certainly do not. I would like the troop to take the Webs camping because, by the rules, they can do more fun things when with Boy Scouts. Which honestly if the one trip they invited the Webs on was fun for them that would do way more them than multiple trips. Do I think the restriction on the Webelos activates are silly yes but I have decided I am not going to disobey them when there is a fairly simple fix. .
                            What things can they do with the troop that they can't do as webelos as a den? I know that there are items that can only be done at a council location but I am not aware of an exception if they are with the troop.
                            http://scoutingmagazine.files.wordpr...lines-2013.pdf

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                            • #29
                              Well back to the original topic.....

                              I was able to jump on an opportunity to reserve camping at the LBJ presidential ranch that only allows camping by scouts in a small amount so it works for patrols. So we will mix in some of the Citizenship activity badge along with fishing and some field sports. They have the historical buildings and museums so it should have some interesting stuff. I'm gonna try to see if I can get a park ranger to talk to the boys about the ranch.

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                              • #30

                                Originally posted by Sidney Porter View Post

                                What things can they do with the troop that they can't do as webelos as a den? I know that there are items that can only be done at a council location but I am not aware of an exception if they are with the troop.
                                http://scoutingmagazine.files.wordpr...lines-2013.pdf
                                I have a hard copy of the GSS and it's in the margins, somewhere. it isn't in the current one online and I can't off the top of my head remember what version it is.

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