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Webelos transition is nuts

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  • #31
    You are right since I know the current Webelos and AoL it is pretty easy for me to skim the new program and compare in my mind.
    High level (hope this helps)
    -cast iron - is most of the old fitness (which was nutrition, drugs, alcohol) with the building a fire and cooking from outdoorsman. The only real addition is food prep saftey.
    -first responder = readyman
    -stronger faster higher = athlete
    -Walkabout = parts of naturalist, outdoorsman and LNT. Althought the wording has changed enough that there quite a few differences it would be harder to line up 1 for 1
    - better world = citizen
    -Camper - Outdoorsmans with the addition of GPS
    -Scouting adventure = These are the non activity pins stuff from the existing AoL (learning the boy scout stuff). There is a few more things with the new one.
    -Adventure in science = Scientist although the experiments look different
    -Aquanaut = Aquanaut changed the row boat to a canoe and they must take the BSA swim test (they do not need to pass) in the old one you had an option if you pass but no credit just for taking
    -Art explosion = Artist the main change is instead of meeting with an professional artist and discussing jobs in art it was replaced with going to a muesum
    Aware and care = this seems new
    -Build it = seesm like a watered down craftsman
    -Hero = this seems new
    -Castaway = this seems new
    -earth rocks = geologist although the experiments are not the same
    -Engineer = Engineer although the experiements do not line up 9I like the old ones better)
    - fix it = handyman most of the stuff alligns althogh the new one has a lot more options
    - game design = looks new
    -into the wild = this appears to be a combination of forrester and naturalist
    - into the woods = parts of forrester with additions
    - looking back = looks new
    - maestro = a watered down version of showman
    - Moviemaking = this new
    - Project Family = Family member the new one looks better. The old one pretty much turns into doing chores. The new one has a little of that but it also has learning about their heritage
    - Sportsman = sportsman

    Gone are: Scholar and communicator

    What is also gone (after a quick skim) are the requirements to meet with the engineer, artist, scientist etc. Although they have been replaced with going the muesums etc. I don't know how i feel about this. It makes it easier on the den leader than finding someone to come in and speak to the scouts, but in my observations the scouts liked hearing from someone other than their parents and the den leader. I also thought that it helps prepare them for when they will meed to be working with MB counselors.

    Comment


    • #32
      There is also the religion requirement both years in the new program vs just one for the old.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by blw2 View Post
        A parallel question that may be a precedent to consider.....
        In Boy Scouts, what happens when a new edition of the handbook is issued?
        Currently on the 12th edition, so this has happened a few times now...... a scout is someplace along the line between crossover and Eagle. What do they do when a new edition is published? Throw out their old book and pick up a new one, starting over?
        Continue using their original book?
        Usually they use their old book, but on ranks aquired since then, they work using the new requirements.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Sidney Porter View Post
          The more I think about it and look at it the less I have an issue with it (disclosure it doesn't impact me or my son. My son will be a Web 2 next year so he will finish under the old program). But if it did impact us I would compare citizen and building a better world I would only do the stuff that was missing in building a better world. I would also either complete readyman their first year or make sure I cover first responder their 2nd.

          It appears that you can count activities completed under the old program as electives under the new program. (In my mind that could justify marking off a lot of building a better world).
          I looked at it last night, and there really isn't that much overlap between the current Citizen badge and the new Building a Better World, so I'm not as worried about that.

          I am also planning on covering Readyman next year and have that count for one of the new AOL electives.

          What gets me is that our boys will have half old style pins, and half new ones.

          I just don't understand what the harm would have been in allowing a transition year for current Bears.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Sidney Porter View Post
            You are right since I know the current Webelos and AoL it is pretty easy for me to skim the new program and compare in my mind.
            High level (hope this helps)
            -cast iron - is most of the old fitness (which was nutrition, drugs, alcohol) with the building a fire and cooking from outdoorsman. The only real addition is food prep saftey.
            -first responder = readyman
            -stronger faster higher = athlete
            -Walkabout = parts of naturalist, outdoorsman and LNT. Althought the wording has changed enough that there quite a few differences it would be harder to line up 1 for 1
            - better world = citizen
            -Camper - Outdoorsmans with the addition of GPS
            -Scouting adventure = These are the non activity pins stuff from the existing AoL (learning the boy scout stuff). There is a few more things with the new one.
            -Adventure in science = Scientist although the experiments look different
            -Aquanaut = Aquanaut changed the row boat to a canoe and they must take the BSA swim test (they do not need to pass) in the old one you had an option if you pass but no credit just for taking
            -Art explosion = Artist the main change is instead of meeting with an professional artist and discussing jobs in art it was replaced with going to a muesum
            Aware and care = this seems new
            -Build it = seesm like a watered down craftsman
            -Hero = this seems new
            -Castaway = this seems new
            -earth rocks = geologist although the experiments are not the same
            -Engineer = Engineer although the experiements do not line up 9I like the old ones better)
            - fix it = handyman most of the stuff alligns althogh the new one has a lot more options
            - game design = looks new
            -into the wild = this appears to be a combination of forrester and naturalist
            - into the woods = parts of forrester with additions
            - looking back = looks new
            - maestro = a watered down version of showman
            - Moviemaking = this new
            - Project Family = Family member the new one looks better. The old one pretty much turns into doing chores. The new one has a little of that but it also has learning about their heritage
            - Sportsman = sportsman

            Gone are: Scholar and communicator

            What is also gone (after a quick skim) are the requirements to meet with the engineer, artist, scientist etc. Although they have been replaced with going the muesums etc. I don't know how i feel about this. It makes it easier on the den leader than finding someone to come in and speak to the scouts, but in my observations the scouts liked hearing from someone other than their parents and the den leader. I also thought that it helps prepare them for when they will meed to be working with MB counselors.
            Thanks! This is a big help!

            I will add that Aware and Care is close to the Disabilities Awareness belt loop and pin.
            Last edited by jumpyg; 05-23-2014, 12:33 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by jumpyg View Post
              I looked at it last night, and there really isn't that much overlap between the current Citizen badge and the new Building a Better World, so I'm not as worried about that. I am also planning on covering Readyman next year and have that count for one of the new AOL electives. What gets me is that our boys will have half old style pins, and half new ones. I just don't understand what the harm would have been in allowing a transition year for current Bears.
              The only thing I can think of is National expects a bunch of new 5th graders to join the program. I am sure it happens but not often.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by jumpyg View Post

                I looked at it last night, and there really isn't that much overlap between the current Citizen badge and the new Building a Better World, so I'm not as worried about that.
                Looks like about 50% over laps. The new stuff is better than what was replaced.
                Building - Citizen
                1 - 3
                2 - 1a, 1b, 8c, 12 (loyalty to the country is missing in the old)
                3 - 9 sort of. It is on page 160 and 161 of the old book but it doesn't appear that there was an actual requirement. We discussed it.
                4 - 10
                5 - not in citizen, sort of in Family member
                6 - not in citizen
                7 - not in citizen
                8 - not in citizen
                9 - not in citizen
                10 - not in citizen

                I like building better that citizen. It is less about the flag, pledge, national anthem and more about being a good citizen.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Was comforting to read this thread. I've been complaining about this for months, and can't seem to get anyone to answer these similar questions.
                  Thanks for everyone trying to get this issue fixed. At least when the BSA changes the Rank requirements, they allow several months.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    "A “1-foot hike” is a common tool to educate the participant on how much nature is present in an area as small as 1 square (or cubic) foot. The point is not the hike; the point is to be observant of the “jungle” right under one’s feet."

                    For more info on changes:


                    http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/201...omment-page-2/

                    Yes, "nuts." It shpould be Lion Rank and Webelos Award. ^___^

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      ^ I wanted to second what Sqyire21 said.

                      This was SO helpful for my husband and I to read. We've had so many questions. The den I am the leader for will be Bears this coming year and Webelos when this all starts so its great to know ahead of time some of what's coming. For y'all who broke it down, it's much appreciated, especially to us who haven't been with the program as long

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Thanks, Sidney! I sat down with the new and old requirements this weekend and came to similar conclusions. I also decided that, in order to keep my sanity, I will start immediately with the new requirements, even if they don't have the Leader Guide finished yet. I'll just use the 46 page pdf and do the Webelos stuff. I don't know how I want to handle the pins yet. I might just make cards for the achievements the boys do this year and let them turn those in for the new pins when they come out. I never liked the current pins anyway I think they are cheesy looking. The new ones look a little nicer to me.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          If I have any webelos come the changeover, I will work in the existing book for webelos badge, and anything else that looks similar to the new requirements. When the new books are actually ready to be bought at hte scout shop, I will buy each boy a new book and go thru and sign everything in the new book that they have completed. If they have earned any of the new adventures/badges, I would award those in addition to any of the old webelos pins they have already earned and are wearing on their colors. then evaluate how to finish the arrow of light plan in the amt of time remaining. Then the scout could decide if he wants to wear old or new awards on his uniform. Basically if a boy does work as a webelo I will figure out how to count it in the right place and not make them redo anything just because national changed the books. Hopefully it will be easy, but probably not. Luckily I've been thru webelos every year since 2005 so I have a good idea of the requirements and can compare them more readily once I have both books next to each other. I won't overthink it until the books are actually printed though.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            A lot of good discussion around the Arrow of Light here. As a former Cub Scout, Webelos I and II leader, I was fortunate to have 100% of my boys earn Super 20 and transition to Boy Scouts. They found themselves well ahead of the pack, so to speak, of other boys transitioning from other Packs. Not that they were any better than the other boys. They simply impressed their new Troop by demonstrating mastery of the concepts, flying through Scout and Tenderfoot ranks in little time, taking on leadership roles, and helping other boys in their new patrols. They added value very quickly and their parents pitched in to help the Troop.

                            Two keys, in my opinion, were parent / family involvement and a focus on what really matters during the Cub and Webelos years. We made a big deal out of our Arrow of Light ceremony and reached out to the parents to bring them onboard - well before the event.

                            I made this video to explain the ceremony and the patch to parents and participants in the ceremony. Feel free to use it if it helps your Pack during transition:

                            http://rch.evsuite.com/arrow-of-light-significance/

                            Here's the YouTube version (open for embedding):

                            http://youtu.be/aXmANamPlkI

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I just got back from resident camp the Web 1 completed fitness, citizen and showman. Assuming they have been active for 6 months since school got out the end of May they could receive their Webelos in Nov, another 6 months puts them at the end of May for AOL. They can have it completed in a year with planning of which activities they work on. It is not my den so I don't know if that is the plan.

                              This isn't to say that they would cross over then they could still work on additional items through the middle of 5th grade,

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                In reviewing the Cub changes I’d say the assessment is dead on. After a very careful review I only find one change I have any issue with, not having to earn Webelo for Arrow of Light, although I can see why this change was made.

                                King, you’re reaction appears to stem form the fact that the program you’ve known and used is changing, and not from an objection to the new program. The only thing that’s constant with BSA is change, and I’ve seen many.

                                If it was up to me I’d go back to cubs earning ranks sequentially, and remove age specific dens. Why do I say this, because it’s what I know, experienced, and used. You knew, used, and experienced, something different, and in a decade, or two, it will happen again. This is all part of staying relevant. Look wide, see past the difficulties that will crop up in the very brief period of transition.

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