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The End of Belt Loops

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  • #16
    all the boys love belt loop.. not mine. but in my den, boys are always looking for a way to learn them. instant gratification, or almost instant..motivates the boys to do things otherwise they won't look at twice.

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    • #17
      Glad to see the belt loops go. They largely seem way too far outside of the scope of what scouting should be about. Video Games? Skateboarding? Kickball? Ultimate Frisbee? Those are things kids do outside of scouting, and there is nothing wrong with keeping those things where they belong, as extra curricular activities, academic activities, and sports. They don't need to be focusing on that stuff in the program, at least not to the extent that they have been where they are rewarded for participation.

      No one gets a Scouting award from the soccer team, the math club, etc. We don't need to reward kids for doing things that have nothing to do with the intent and purpose of scouting.

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      • #18
        Yea Do away with Everything that A Scouter can do Outside scouting...Oh Wait, There would be No Scouting Left..Outside of Earning Ranks What is there Unique About Scouting...Community Service, Nope Now days your Required to have so Many Hours To Graduate from High School...Camping..Nope there Are Now Clubs that promote Camping at all ages...Not just to Boy Scout Age or Venture Aged Scouters..

        Name one single Merit Badge that is so Unique to Boy Scout Activity It is Not Taught somewhere or learned outside Boy Scouts..Yea I know No one can Award a "Merit Badge" because BSA Lawyers will chase you down like a Fox..But You can teach someone Computer Science, Metalsmithing, Cooking, Fishing, Archery, and every other so called Merit Badge Activity also.

        Do Away with Physical Activities Because they should be Having Recess and Physical Education in School everyday..So No Need for those in Scouting

        Citizenship...Nope got those Classes in Schools also no need for Redundancey..

        Only thing Unique In Scouting is the Manner it is Presented and Taught..

        For Cubbies, yes almost all want some sort of Patch or award...As they age out, they lose importance

        Comment


        • dedkad
          dedkad commented
          Editing a comment
          And now kids can learn and see most everything on the internet, so the only thing that Scouting can really offer is actually going out and doing what you learned or saw on YouTube.

        • EmberMike
          EmberMike commented
          Editing a comment
          What a ridiculous comment. No one is saying that all things taught in Scouting need not be represented in the program because they can be learned elsewhere.

          Like I said above, things that have nothing to do with the intent and purpose of scouting should possibly be removed from the program. Baden Powell has had to be turning in his grave over the years as we've introduced new awards for things like video games and frisbee.

      • #19
        I'm not a fan of them going away altogether. I thing there are too many of them and the pins are too easy. I think they need to reduce them to things like Archery, BB, Hiking.... get rid of ones like Video Games.

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        • #20
          My son plays piano and writes music competitively. We are not a sporty family. Having my son earn sport belt loops is good for him. He doesn't participate in any organized sports activities. He also doesn't go to school, so he doesn't have pe. The sport belt loops gave my son an introduction to the sports. (He was rather confused on how to play some very popular sports.) The academic belt loops, while very basic, still require effort and give the boy an introduction to the topic. My son was gun ho on belt loops for awhile, but there are several that he only completed 2 of the 3 requirements.

          Now, I've see belt loops "earned" at cub camp. That is not right. The boys only partially complete 2 of the requirements and then are awarded the loop anyway. That kind of stuff happens at the pack and den level as well. (or at least in my pack) I don't agree with that.

          Boys love awards. Or many do anyway. I think it is good for boys to try out different activities and academic subjects.

          Comment


          • dedkad
            dedkad commented
            Editing a comment
            I hear similar things about Boy Scouts "earning" Merit badges at camp.

          • Pack18Alex
            Pack18Alex commented
            Editing a comment
            When my wife was reviewing them with our son, she commented to me that in PE she remembers learning different sports and playing a bit. It seemed to her like the same purpose here, to make you more well rounded.

            Last Pack Outing, we did Chess and Badminton. Some of the boys already knew Chess and taught the others, the others learned a game they wouldn't have learned otherwise. Badminton is one of those things that is a "only because of Scouts" like Marbles, things people don't learn otherwise.

            On one hand, I think doing Belt Loops @ Den Meetings is a mistake, it's crowding out the age-specific electives that are way more Scouty. However, for Pack Activities/Pack Meetings/Pack Outings, these are great because Tigers - Webelos II can all do the same activity and receive recognition.

            My son went Gung Ho as a Tiger, likes earning them as a Wolf. The new Bear Scouts are gung-ho, the existing ones are bored. The Webelos enjoy receiving them but half the time forget to wear their belts.

            Given that today, in school, PE is so much more limited, I think that they are a great program. My son set a goal of getting them all (I have no idea how to do Snowboarding/Snow Skiing in South Florida)... I doubt he'll hit it, but its neat for him to set a goal, try, likely fail, and grow from that experience.

            Given Council and National's Cash Flow Problems, I don't understand why they'd cut a program that involves buying 5 cents of plastic from China and selling it for $1.80 at the Scout Store.

            The Pins, however, are one of those things we could ditch. My son LOVES his (we sewed the C on the Brag Vest, like a letterman's jacket), but they seem to be less about learning about the sport, and more about the leader pencil whipping them through the requirements.

            The Academic Belt Loops seem like a great and underutilized part of the program as well. After Blue and Gold, I'm looking to see how I can arrange for doing a meeting to satisfy a few electives AND do a Belt Loop.

        • #21
          I just realized something. I don't mind the topics of the Belt Loops. I think it's great that scouts can get together and play kickball or badminton and get something to remind them they did it.

          USABILITY ... I just hate the belt loops. If my son earned 20, I'd have a nightmare trying to put them on a belt and put the belt in the pants and then somewhat regularly wash the pants. The belt loops would be in a drawer and never used.

          PRICE ... Plus, the belt loop is too expensive. It should be a buck or less. And you get a pin and a belt loop for close to the same thing? What? And the pack pays once for the pin and once for the belt loop. What?

          PRESENTATION ... When belt loops are presented, they are usually still in the card board with the plastic cover on them. Does not look nice. But it's the only way to keep labeled and somewhere to put the person's name. I guess you could tape it to an advancement card, but we don't do that. Just looks poorly presented.

          Give me a pin or a patch. Heck, I'd like to see a patch jacket be more common.

          Comment


          • #22
            Originally posted by fred johnson View Post
            I just realized something. I don't mind the topics of the Belt Loops. I think it's great that scouts can get together and play kickball or badminton and get something to remind them they did it.

            USABILITY ... I just hate the belt loops. If my son earned 20, I'd have a nightmare trying to put them on a belt and put the belt in the pants and then somewhat regularly wash the pants. The belt loops would be in a drawer and never used.

            PRICE ... Plus, the belt loop is too expensive. It should be a buck or less. And you get a pin and a belt loop for close to the same thing? What? And the pack pays once for the pin and once for the belt loop. What?

            PRESENTATION ... When belt loops are presented, they are usually still in the card board with the plastic cover on them. Does not look nice. But it's the only way to keep labeled and somewhere to put the person's name. I guess you could tape it to an advancement card, but we don't do that. Just looks poorly presented.

            Give me a pin or a patch. Heck, I'd like to see a patch jacket be more common.
            In our pack we present them to to the boys at the Den meeting, they are announced at the pack meeting. But it is a more personal presentation at the den level.. If you follow the requirements for the pins they should be much harder to earn. I'm the CC so I do my best to make sure that they are earning pins for actually doing the requirements. I think the pins help the boys transition to the Boy Scouts where they have to prove they know the material to earn the Merit Badge.

            I also think that the Tigers and Wolfs really enjoy getting bling, the webelos are too cool for loops :-)

            Comment


            • EmberMike
              EmberMike commented
              Editing a comment
              Webelos should be too cool for loops, especially the Webelo 2s. I would hope that at that point they are focusing more on skills they'll need to transition into the Troop and get the Scout rank.

          • #23
            My son set a goal of getting them all (I have no idea how to do Snowboarding/Snow Skiing in South Florida)...

            A Road Trip up the East Coast comes to mind.

            Comment


            • Pack18Alex
              Pack18Alex commented
              Editing a comment
              I think if we do that he'll have to donate pin work so we can do both at once...

          • #24
            I LOVE the belt loop program and have implemented it alongside rank requirements. It works well and ensures that all boys get several recognitions at ceremonies - I am very sad to hear the belt loop program may be going away, and I will try to do as many belt loops as possible next year as a pack and individually with my two boys. I have a son who will be eligible for scouts in 2015, so I guess he'll never be able to do the belt loop program unless I buy them ahead of time ... perhaps an idea?

            Comment


            • #25
              Originally posted by Fehler View Post
              Rather than trying to discuss the New Cub Scout delivery system in one big topic, I'd prefer breaking out the changes into separate discussions.

              So, no more Belt Loops after May 2015. Good, Bad, or Meh?
              Can you provide a source for this? I can't find anything online that says the belt loops are going away. It would have quite a big impact on the program - it would require rewriting a lot of the Webelos requirements and a huge chunk of the NOVA program, both of which require the earning of specific belt loops.

              As for whether or not it'd be a good idea - I'm on the side with others that say they should be kept. It seems that most of the arguments against them have to do with specific Pack decisions about whether or not to focus on them or how they are presented, which don't really strike me as reasons to dump the program.

              I will say that they do make the belt kind of a hassle to get on, and smaller kids (like mine) will surely run out of space on the belt if they earn enough, but I say that's a good problem to have.

              We had a new scout join our Bear den recently. His mom decided that Scouts would be a good way for her son to bond with her new fiance, so the boy wasn't completely sold on the notion, either. At our first meeting, I picked up immediately that he was very shy and didn't feel he fit in. Therefore, I changed my meeting plan at the last minute and had the boys earn the Music belt loop, since it was something I could do with materials I had on hand. His attitude towards Scouts changed 100% the following week at the Pack meeting when he got to stand up in front of everyone and get an award.

              Comment


              • christineka
                christineka commented
                Editing a comment
                My almost 11 year old son now has two belts- one was his father's. He had to split his loops in half between belts. He has maybe earned half the loops.

            • #26
              Try here

              http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/programupdates.aspx

              http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pr...Boy_Scouts.pdf

              page 11 in the pdf

              Comment


              • #27
                I'm pretty sure the belt loops are not essential to the program. Scout son made it from Tiger to Life without earning one, wasn't a den priority. I'm pretty sure his journey will be complete without them...

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by duckfoot View Post
                  I'm pretty sure the belt loops are not essential to the program. Scout son made it from Tiger to Life without earning one, wasn't a den priority. I'm pretty sure his journey will be complete without them...
                  Except that if your son earned every Cub Scout rank he earned multiple belt loops, as they are required for several rank requirements. Not to mention it would be hard to not accidently earn some of them.

                  Comment


                  • That Scouting Guy
                    That Scouting Guy commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Citizen Webelos Activity Badge
                    Do 1-8 and two of 9-17:
                    8. Earn the Citizenship belt loop while a Webelos. At a Webelos den meeting, talk about the service project Good Turn that you did.

                  • Renax127
                    Renax127 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Even in the instance were the belt loops isn't a required it is one of the allowed option (do 5 of 8, etc) so while not required there really isn't a good reason not to do it if it ties into something else in the program. Even as an addition to doing a requirement.

                    Anyway belt loops might be going away but they will be replaced by something.

                  • duckfoot
                    duckfoot commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Well Hell's Bells...you're right. Scoutson did get at least one belt loop, though i'm still hard pressed to remember it...still, that just makes the point, you can run a good Cub program without them.

                    I'll refrain from commenting about Cubs from now on, it was so long ago...I'll just show myself out the door...

                • #29
                  I cannot tell you how many hundreds of belt loops and pins I pick up off the fellowship hall after the pack meeting.

                  The boys don't care......the parents do.......

                  I think I maybe partly responsible for this, because I posted on bryan asking why there was no nose wiping or I didn't cry belt loops. Because we have them for everything else.

                  The boys know they are meaningless. The bb and archery are complete jokes, sit thru the safety talk and shoot a few times and you have earned it.

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                  • #30
                    If I recall, belt loops once were the award that the activity pin is now. It was rare to see more than 5 'loops on a belt back then.

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