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  • Camping with Webelos

    I was wondering how people handle Webelos camping. I have made a rule that no siblings should attend, this is causing all sorts of problems with several of my parents.

    Mostly I want the boys to camp without worrying about their little brother, etc plus I really don't want to be camping with 30 odd people. Teaching the boys takes a back seat to dealing with the little kids and keeping the parents (moms in particular) away from the boys so they can actually do stuff.

  • #2
    We only did Family camping but what we did was to try to get the Webelos to tent with a buddy and the parents and siblings nearby but separate. We got together for meals and a few group games but the families hung out while the boys did fire-building, etc.

    Comment


    • #3
      I've never taken Webelos II camping with more than one parent. Boys bunked with boys, not parents. Works just fine, never had a problem, but then I don't go looking for it by declaring a free-for-all event. In all the years I have spent with BSA I've never attended a "family" camp event, don't ever plan to in the future either. If it isn't "for the boys" it's not worth the hassle. This is a youth program, not a family program. YMCA has family programs, families are free to check them out.

      Stosh

      Comment


      • Renax127
        Renax127 commented
        Editing a comment
        that's sort of how I feel, If they want to family camp the pack does plenty of camping trips and they can go on those. I REALLY want the boys to have fun camping though.
        Last edited by Renax127; 11-07-2013, 04:02 PM.

    • #4
      I get where you are comming from given your previous post. My bear is really mad that his brother gets to go camping all the time and he doesn't. Minecraft helps. Webelos camping should be just about the boys and some parents along. This is not a Pack Campout. If those parents don't want to participate in the Webelos program, what can you do ? They are in for a big shock next year. Have you tried explaining the purpose of what you are trying to do ?

      Comment


      • Renax127
        Renax127 commented
        Editing a comment
        Oh yeah. I've told them I'm moving them towards Boy Scout style camping and basically they don't care; "we'll deal with that when we get there".

        Don't get me wrong, there are a couple of good parents.

      • King Ding Dong
        King Ding Dong commented
        Editing a comment
        On further thought there could be legitimate reasons for the resistance. Family work schedules could make it difficult for one parent to go camping and leave the siblings at home with the other parent who may have other obligations.

        But if they just "want" to family camp, I think you are in your right to say , "sorry, that is not the program I am offering and this is why..." They can take it or leave it.

      • jblake47
        jblake47 commented
        Editing a comment
        I don't know how "officially legal" it is in regards to BSA policy, but when one has a signed form from the parent designating me as temporary guardian for the trip, I have taken boys on the Webelos II outings when the parents can't come. I don't like doing that, but I'm really not in favor of telling a boy he can't go because a parent can't go. After all, the program is for the boys. I've never had a situation where siblings wanted to go or even a second parent. It is made very clear that it's for the boys and one parent is invited on the trip, period. No complaints. IF... I ever got push back on it, my response would be, "Sorry to hear you're boy won't be able to make it."

        As DL, I can make all the rules I want pertaining to attendance because I'm the one responsible and if I don't want more than X number of people (# of boys attending, times 2) then I have a right to say so.

        If the wedding invitation is addressed to "you and guest", you don't assume you can bring your whole family. This is not without precedent.

        I have had occasions where parents can't go and give me permission to be temporary guardian for the event. In those instances I get an older scout to buddy up with him so he doesn't feel "alone" on the trip and there's a set of eyes to keep tabs on him. Those parings seem to fare better than the boy/parent ones.

        Stosh

    • #5
      "we'll deal with that when we get there"
      Hey! Guess where we are!

      I get this from time to time at the venturing level. (Not every campsite is after miles of rocks and bogs, and some younger sibs are veritable "Venturers in Training.") In those situations, I insist that a parent (who isn't one of my designated adults for the trip) come along to attend to whatever needs the younger brother or sister might have. If you were to do something of the sort, for example, you would need a parent/guardian for your Webelo and another parent for little brother/sister(s). They would have to set their site up at some distance from the Webelos, and program doesn't stop just because the youngsters don't think it's fun anymore.

      If they are indeed good parents, they'll work with you on this.

      Comment


      • Kristian
        Kristian commented
        Editing a comment
        at the venturing/troop level at least you can schedule the campout somewhere that you must hike into and miles from the parking lot. that will eliminate extra family members pretty quick.

    • #6
      Originally posted by jblake47 View Post

      This is a youth program, not a family program. YMCA has family programs, families are free to check them out.

      Stosh
      Great Advice lets give people reasons not to join Boy Scouts and give another option where Families can spend what few chances they have to spend time together. Since Boy Scouts is about Youth unless it is Female youth then they don't matter

      Comment


      • scoutergipper
        scoutergipper commented
        Editing a comment
        Regardless of the activity, all experiences with one's family are the same in their potential to impact personality. Boys and girls need separate, unique experiences to fully develop as young persons and then as adults. Learning to function even while away from one's family is one of the most important elements of maturity.

      • Renax127
        Renax127 commented
        Editing a comment
        I understand that people want a "family experience" I just wonder if any of them demand that the little sister play in the brothers baseball game too.

      • qwazse
        qwazse commented
        Editing a comment
        Grade-school female siblings, I'm kinda okay with. Half of my boy scouts scream like girls anyway.
        But my ulterior motive (if and when I allow them to participate in one of our activities with our parents) is to inspire moms to be the kinda GS leader that motivate their girls to enjoy "roughing it" so that a few years from now they will be Venturing ready.

        Jr. High ladies ... I'm in complete and utter terror of them. A lot of what I find myself doing with the boys the same age is unpacking the "Disney Drama" culture that is foisted on them at school. So, without moms or really insightful older sisters who can help work against the culture from the female side of things, I'm just this mean old man telling them to leave the H&BA behind and come out with me and some very strange moms who somehow aren't afraid to look like they've been dragged through yards of laurel thickets at the end of the day.

        Simply put, the BSA is not prepared to bring Jr. High youth of both sexes through that transition via outdoor methods. Until that is something that is valued across the USA (and I would argue that it is not, looking at our First Families going back many administrations), we troop leaders are better off introducing new parents to what we know works: giving boys the space to be boys while demanding a high level integrity from them.

    • #7
      Keep telling yourselves that...Mean while Scouting in the Rest of the World is Treking along Co-Ed at all levels. Just In America do we continue to hold onto the separate but Equal Programs However Boy Scouts just Happens to be superior than everyone else attitudes

      Comment


      • scoutergipper
        scoutergipper commented
        Editing a comment
        I've counseled both my own kids and the Scouts in the Troop that the old "everyone else is doing it" is not a valid reason for them to do it too. Boys and girls are welcome to mingle in the Venturing program.

      • Basementdweller
        Basementdweller commented
        Editing a comment
        Keep it up, we will be coed soon enough. It will kill our troops outdoor program as the boys parents barely slow down enough to let them exit the care. I know that recruiting a mom to be the coed leader will be a problem for us.


        I have NO interest in running a family recreational club. I hate HATE HHAATTEE family camping. I will never allow it with our troop. One parent per scout ONLY please.
        Last edited by Basementdweller; 11-11-2013, 09:20 AM.

      • perdidochas
        perdidochas commented
        Editing a comment
        I pretty much agree with BD. It would be hard to find female leaders who are as hardcore about camping as most male leaders. Our SM and about two others of us are at almost every campout. Female leaders are welcome, but we pretty much just get them to come on rare occasions. The other thing is that it would increase the drama. When you have teenaged boys and girls together, there will be romantic drama. (I taught middle school for three years, high school for five years, my wife has been a middle school asst principal for 6 yrs, after 5 yrs in the middle school classroom, and a year as a disciplinary dean in a middle school). We don't need the drama.

        We do have a coed set of units in BSA, the Venture Scouts. Until then, we give boys a time to develop. 11 yr old boys are about 2 yrs less mature than 11 yr old girls. They don't come close to catching up until about age 14 or 15. Boys need a girl free zone, IMHO.

        I agree with BD about family camping. Our troop does a family camp every August, along with a COH at the campsite. My wife and I go for the day, but don't camp with them (partly because it's August in NW FL with the lows at night in the 80s, with 95% humidity, but partly because I don't want to see my semi-independent scouts become Mama's and Daddy's boys). It changes the dynamic too much. The other side to that, is that I can see why we have some lazy scouts--their parents do too much for them, and it's a shock to their system when in the Troop they have to pull their own weight.

    • #8
      Our troop is hosting our Webelos this coming weekend.

      We had a number of webelos parents inquiring about attending......My response is that is fine, No alcohol or tobacco, your not sleeping in your van, your not hanging around the campfire while the troop and webs are doing program, It is not free, you pay same as the boys, you will help cook and answer to the Scout Head cook. This is not a poker weekend.

      Well that knocked off all but 2. I have these guys pegged as my future ASM so it worked out.

      Comment


      • #9
        I understand where you are coming from. It has been my goal to get Webelos IIs off with out the family. It mostly works out but, as some have mentioned, it is tough for a parent to be on a campout and leave a sibling behind. When that does happen I let them know up front that the Webelos will tent and camp as patrol. Any extra campers are off to the side. I know there are some kids that wouldn't come if I was absolute on Webelos only.

        Comment


        • jblake47
          jblake47 commented
          Editing a comment
          That's the decision of the parent to not have their scout go on the outing. This is why if the parent really wanted their son to go, I had the temporary guardian permission slip for them to consider and I then assigned a mature Boy Scout to buddy up with them and help me keep an eye on them.

          If there's a will, there's a way. Yes, there are parents out there that will "punish" the boy by not allowing him to go if siblings can't go. I've seen it done many times. But as a scout leader, one cannot trump parents no matter what they choose to do.

          There are a lot of options out there for the siblings, Johnny's going camping and Suzie has to go to grandmas for the weekend, or a sleep over at a friends house, or as a last resort, use the guardian permission slip. It may not solve the problem completely, but it does offer more options for parents to consider other than just not letting Johnny go.

          Stosh
          Last edited by jblake47; 11-11-2013, 04:41 PM.

      • #10
        Has policy changed? I thought the thing which was different between Webelos den camping and Cub Scout camping is that Webelos are allowed to camp with only their (two) den leaders. Parental supervision is not a requirement. We certainly ran Webelos resident camp that way.

        Comment


        • #11
          Nope - this has been the guideline for many years -

          From the Guide to Safe Scouting -
          • A Webelos Scout may participate in overnight den camping when supervised by an adult. In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of his parent or guardian. It is essential that each Webelos Scout be under the supervision of a parent-approved adult. Joint Webelos den/troop campouts including the parents of the Webelos Scouts are encouraged to strengthen ties between the pack and troop. Den leaders, pack leaders, and parents are expected to accompany the boys on approved trips.
          Also from the Guide to Safe Scouting -

          If a well-meaning leader brings along a child who does not meet these age guidelines, disservice is done to the unit because of distractions often caused by younger children. A disservice is also done to the child, who is not trained to participate in such an activity and who, as a nonmember of the group, may be ignored by the older campers.

          Comment


          • #12
            Webelos resident camp is a different thing entirely. However, there are still youth to adult ratios that must be maintained.

            Comment


            • #13
              At Webelos level, our webelo woods or webelo campout is for webelos only and a parent or two. We have families where it's only one kid and the husband and wife come. Thatt's fine, brothers and sisters are not allowed. Webelo campouts for us are where the scouts are being taught to operate outdoors at a partol and we also introduce the camping in a tent with a buddy if they want.

              Comment


              • #14
                For whatever reason, we had a family with a Webelos show up at the boy scout camporee. Don't know if they got the weekend confused with the CS Family Camp the next weekend, but they did their own thing, and visited a few troops. It was a distraction to a degree, but overlooked since it was one family an they were on their own. But I cased me concerns since A) they were out of place and B) my oldest who was camping and doing the rounds with a troop ended up fishing with his friend.

                Comment

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