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  • Webelos and no den

    I wrote a few weeks ago about our cub pack merging with another. That's on hold, while decision makers debate on how to do this the best way. We've been told we are not allowed to hold scout meetings at all until this gets sorted out. My son is a Webelos, moving on to boy scouts in February (this is LDS scouts, where boys change cub rank on the birthday). My son's been working hard on his cub achievements and learning the boy scout stuff (for Arrow of Light). (Okay, so I pay him a bean per achievement and beans can be traded in for video game time. I pay beans for cooking, cleaning, and other things too. This kid and his video game obsession get my house cleaned and the yard weeded!) He wants to know if there can be some accommodation made for doing the requirement in a den, while there is no den- such as playing the body language game with the family instead of the den. I told him he just can't do anything that's supposed to be done in the den, but I'd check here because you guys know your stuff.

  • #2
    Please cite the requirement in question.

    Comment


    • #3
      I would ask the den leader, since that who is responsible for signing off. If the den leader is not available then, discuss with the cubmaster.

      In my opinion, the boy shouldn't be penalized because adults get their act together, but my opinion doesn't count for beans (pun intended).

      Maybe transfer to another pack temporarily?

      Comment


      • christineka
        christineka commented
        Editing a comment
        I was acting den leader for the last 2 months of meetings.

    • #4
      Originally posted by christineka View Post
      (Okay, so I pay him a bean per achievement and beans can be traded in for video game time. I pay beans for cooking, cleaning, and other things too. This kid and his video game obsession get my house cleaned and the yard weeded!)
      We do a similar thing with our kids, it does work, but we need to get more consistent with it.
      Wondering, In your program how many game minutes does one bean buy, and how much say weeding does he have to do to earn one bean? 1:1 or something else?

      Comment


      • Basementdweller
        Basementdweller commented
        Editing a comment
        So what lesson are you teaching with the beans????

        I don't think it is the lesson intended......

        The lesson being taught is there should be an award for absolutely everything going on in the family or making the household run.......How much time do you spend negotiating for beans......shakin my head...

        No thanks......The concept if flawed.


        My son is a member of the household he has assigned jobs and earns an allowance that he can spend on things he desires......

        His video gaming is tied to grades, completion of homework and chore completion............ Get it all done in a quality manner the rest of the day or evening is yours.....

      • King Ding Dong
        King Ding Dong commented
        Editing a comment
        I am not a fan of excessive video game time but I have to ask. 8 beans for reading how much of the New Testament? Surely not whole book ? 4 hours of piano buys 30 minutes of video ?

        Beans or cash, pretty much the same thing. Work is being monetized. It may be effective, just rubs me the wrong way at that age.

        Btw. Deodorant or anti-perspirent ? Coercing someone to use artificial scents seems a little harsh. Young noses can be very sensitive. If perspiration is the problem that is another story.

      • sasha
        sasha commented
        Editing a comment
        Ok. I didn't think of having the kids award themselves.

        BD, I've used similar systems when I think that my child needs frequent and immediate recognition for his/her behavior. It can help reset expectations for me and for my child. For this purpose, I think having the parent make the award/recognition is key. I also think in general it is more appropriate for younger kids than older kids. Kind of like how BSA runs its scout program, in that the older the scout, the more work and time into the award for recognition.

    • #5
      Check with the Den Leader, that's you. With the exception of the big stuff like the Den Hike, I don't see any reason that it matters.

      Also, contact all Packs near you (LDS or "gentile"), explain the situation, and see if he can tag along in their Pack's Den Meetings while this gets squared away.

      Comment


      • #6
        It seems crazy to me that he has a den of four other boys he could do the work with, but can't...I understand that it is politics though. I'd let him do the requirements with his family or another Webelos den just in case, but repeat them with his den if the situation straightens out in time for his AOL and crossover. This feels like the best compromise for the situation you have here. Have you been given any sort of timeline for resolution?

        Comment


        • #7
          "We've been told we are not allowed to hold scout meetings at all until this gets sorted out." - I'm a scofflaw.

          So don't hold Scout meetings; invite his former den-mates over for a little 'Bean-Counting'. Don't wear the uniform, but you can do things in the book (that you may want to sign off on later).

          Adult incompetence should never be allowed to penalize the program for the boys.

          Comment


          • #8
            I'm currently looking into temporarily joining another troop. We were originally supposed to start up scouts again this week, but now they want to look around and see if there's another small pack we could join up with, but that may be difficult if the small pack is not nearby. (With Utah church scouts we all want to be within walking distance of the meetings.) The pack we were supposed to join up with has all men leaders and we have all women leaders and that doesn't work. Hopefully this will be ironed out fairly soon, but maybe not.

            In the meantime, My kids and I have learned to play ultimate and will have to go play a game this afternoon. After that we may have to go down to the church to play volleyball. (The pack just needed to play a game when we were told to quit meetings.)

            Comment


            • Pack18Alex
              Pack18Alex commented
              Editing a comment
              I'm glad you have Mormon friends. Doesn't change the fact the Mormon bigamy jokes are a bigoted joke... I'm sure you have Jewish friends, but if you made a comment about my Pack excelling at being thrifty, it'd be an off-color joke.

              That said, her faith based CO prohibits here from being assigned as a co-leader with a single male partner. I don't pretend to understand Mormon law, but both Halacha (Jewish Law) and Sharia (Islamic Law) have similar provisions. I have no idea what Church Canon says on the matter. So between insulting her religion (and the religion of other peoples) and telling a "Mormon joke," I suggest you simply apologize, walk away from this conversation, and ask yourself why you felt the need to interject with bigoted comments on this blog.

              You need some sensitivity training. It's 2013, it's not acceptable in polite society to insult the religious views of others OR tell ethnic jokes about someone's religion.

            • Pack18Alex
              Pack18Alex commented
              Editing a comment
              KDD wrote, "I am certainly not trying to be disrespectful of her faith, but I have a hard time understanding this particular situation. "

              Bullshit. You insulted her religious restriction is absurd, and in your apology dismissed it as " cheaters are going to cheat"

              What's your point? This isn't about her contemplating an affair, this is about a religious prohibition on her being in a one-on-one situation with a man not her husband. She didn't suggest she was attracted to him, just that LDS prohibits it. Since you're not LDS, the WHY is none of your business. That's what respecting the religious views of others requires, it doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, it's her religion, NOT yours.

            • King Ding Dong
              King Ding Dong commented
              Editing a comment
              Point taken Alex. I appoligize for my comments.

          • #9
            This has gotta be the dumbest thing I have read, well next to the thermometer thing...


            So either they want the boys or they don't..........There shouldn't be any conditions..... Something just isn't right.


            Just get the sneaking suspicion there is much more to the story than we are hearing.

            Comment


            • christineka
              christineka commented
              Editing a comment
              All this decision making stuff is done quite secretly. I know a little because my husbands in on this- but only a little because he's a secretary. They've been debating joining the pack with another for 3 months and I only heard about it when they finally made the decision to actually do it- then they decided it couldn't work right away.
              Last edited by christineka; 08-25-2013, 07:09 PM.

          • #10
            With all that's going on, why not temporarily join a non-LDS pack? I've known other LDS families that didn't like their ward/stake pack who did this.

            Comment


            • #11
              Apparently scouts is back on. Cub master lady came over to tell me that we're having pack meeting tomorrow night- basically because she's the bishop's wife and could over-rule him in this matter. She says we're doing den meetings again- starting next week and we're not joining up with the other pack because they were rude and don't like us. That's her version anyway. She says she's going to do webelos and I'll just have to do wolves and bears. I don't have any plans, but I'll start making some.

              Comment


              • Pack18Alex
                Pack18Alex commented
                Editing a comment
                A few months back at a music festival, at the "youth" area Home Depot was giving away Tool Box kits. I think that they sell them for about $10... My son (Wolf) put it together with minimal help from me in about 20 minutes. I'd allocate 45 minutes if I had a Den, but very doable.

              • dcsimmons
                dcsimmons commented
                Editing a comment
                This http://www.amazon.com/Tool-Box-Wood-.../dp/B001NZ5SL2 looks a lot like the one my son did as a cub scout.

              • King Ding Dong
                King Ding Dong commented
                Editing a comment
                Maybe one of the dads has a shop in his garage and can make the kits for you using scrap plywood or pine boards. If he pre drilled the holes the boys would just need to screw it together, lightly sand and stain or paint.

                When I did craftsmen I hauled all my stuff to the parking lot of the school and one adult manned each power station and guided the Webelos in using the tool. I didn't know about GTSS back then. We had the use the compound miter saw, press and electric screw driver. I did not let them use the nail gun. . We made squirrel release boxes for the conservation dept.

            • #12
              Pack meeting was tonight. We're not joining up with any pack (unless that changes). I'm webelos leader along with the cub master. Former webelos leader is now bears. Wolf leader stays the same. Bears leader wants nothing to do with wolf leader. Wolf leader has been doing nothing, tends to get sick, and refuses to plan. Perhaps this will get her to step up and do something- or the wolves may play a lot of candy crush this year. I don't know what new bear leader plans to do since she's supposedly been too sick to do scouts for the past 3 months. I asked a dad about helping with wooden projects and he would love to come help and has the saw thing that the boys need to use. Cub committee member (dictator) told us no meetings at all until she says so (not next week), yet cub master wants to start meetings next week. (Perhaps this is a difference of opinion because cub master has a webelos and cub committee member's son is in two troops, so she's not worried about her son getting stuff done- especially since he's a bear in the other troop, but only a wolf in ours. I don't know whether we should make an exception for him or not and hope none of the other boys notice.)

              Cub committee member said she would only award the boys things that were done with the pack this summer, yet she awarded her son with one not done in the pack. She also awarded the boys belt loops that they didn't complete. Cub master asked her about it and she said to just give it to the boys anyway. later on the cub master decided to be her own self and collected the belt loops from the boys, told them we'd finish it up and would award it next time. (yay! Someone with integrity!)

              Hey, I'm officially the webelos leader now. They told me I could go set up our den's visits with the boy scout troop whenever I wanted, so if it happens next week it's okay.

              I really hate this. I don't think I like working with people.
              Last edited by christineka; 08-27-2013, 09:55 PM.

              Comment


              • King Ding Dong
                King Ding Dong commented
                Editing a comment
                Wow, that's a whole lot of corruption to deal with in an organization. How do you stand it ?

              • christineka
                christineka commented
                Editing a comment
                I have a son in the organization. Except I do have the information needed to have him join another pack. I am still called to do this and perhaps I add some voice of reason in there somewhere.
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