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  • Dual roles

    Is it permitted, or possible to assume the roles of DL and CM? Our CM resigned recently and we are meeting to discuss his replacement tonight. I was approached in the past about taking the role when he left, but it was not supposed to be this soon, and I don't want to abandon my boys. There are a few other issues that make me hesitant to take the role on such short notice, but I am afraid if I don't the Pack will be up the creek.

  • #2
    I could have written this exact post. Insist one of the parents step up as DL and become ADL and/or get a good Den Chief. You can certainly assume the role at the unit level. You will need to change your primary registration at the service center to CM. Likely will have to fill out a new app. Sending out an email soliciting a new CM will not work. You must identify some possible candidates and two or three committee members gang up on him or her and give the pitch.


    • #3
      Herein lies the problem, the CC and most of the committee members are parents of W2s and I see no succession plan. The common theme among them is "I have six months left".


      • #4
        My first question would be, why must you step up and abandon your boys? This is a problem that needs to be worked out by the pack committee. Either they are going to recruit a CM or a DL. In the interest of the boys (which is always my #1 consideration), you should stay with your boys and the committee starts working on the CM position. Now, if you truly wish to do CM instead of DL, I would recruit a good person to take over your boys with a good DL. Add a ADL and maybe a trained DC to insure a good experience for the boys. After that is done, go for CM. If the committee wants you as CM, you can always insist assistance in finding good DL/ADL/DC to take over your den before accepting CM. So who wins? I don't care as long as it is the boys.


        • gsdad
          gsdad commented
          Editing a comment
          My sole interest is making sure the boys do not lose out with any changes.

      • #5
        I'm in a dual role position....
        I volunteered to be ADL. Then the CM resigned so a friend that was a Committee Member volunteered to be CM. He then asked me to be ACM.
        I have retained the duties of ADL too, but per council you can only register in one position, so I'm registered as ACM

        I agree with others though, do one or the other but not both unless it's a really small pack.

        Are any of the parents in the Den good ones to tap? Seems like there's always one parent who's the unofficial not in uniform pseudo-ADL. Tap that person as "it" for the DL if you want to take CM.


        • #6
          Remember that 80% of Scouting occurs at the Den level. Making sure the Dens are covered is the first priority. Women can be just as good or better at the CM position as well. It is extremely important to get the Tiger parents involved and trained. It must be made clear to the all the parents that without their involvement the Pack does not "Go". Even the single mom can do something, however small. I am a firm believer in having sign up sheets and if you have a parent that is not signed up approaching them face to face and asking what roles or positions they would like to fulfill. Do not ask them to volunteer. Make it an expectation.


          • #7
            I am the previous year's Tiger DL, one of the other parents is the Pack secretary, another is an ACM who was previously a DL, and not a good choice for CM. I have asked others to be ADL for this year and get excuses. We have no Bear den, and I am not sure of how many incoming Tigers we will have. The pack is small(20), and will get even smaller when the W2s bridge.


            • King Ding Dong
              King Ding Dong commented
              Editing a comment
              Ultimately it comes down to sitting all the parents of a den down and telling them they have two choices. A. Pick a DL and work out who is going to do what. Or B. Disolve the Den. Their choice, it is their children and they explain their decision to their children.

          • #8
            It's a common situation in our pack, most of our leaders wear two hats and we are larger than your unit.. My concern for you isn't in being Cubmaster and DL, but that you will end up assuming CC as well since as you say the committee is counting down the months to crossover. How many of the excuses from the other parents in your den are truly valid? Do you have someone that you would really like to work with, that you can recruit more vigorously? Can you identify a parent to begin working on to be CC? If you take CM, you'll basically have to build your own committee from what you've said, and you'll want to start that process ASAP.

            Good luck!


            • #9
              The COR is active and helpful so I know I can count on his help to recruit more leaders. Among my list of questions is what is the exit plan of the current CC since he said he has a succession plan. I have no issues with wearing two hats as long as the program doesn't suffer.


              • #10
                It's a recipe for burnout. My pack was/is about the same size. I was the CC for a number of years and filled in as CM a few times in voids. IMHO, nobody can do both for long and do both well. If you do work both positions, will your parents step up to run the Blue&Gold or Pinewood Derby or refreshments for a pack meeting?


                • #11
                  I would not do it, you will burn out and it will hurt. Trust me on it.


                  • #12
                    Short answer is yes it's possible.

                    I was CM and DL for 2 dens w/o assistants for either for about 2 years. There wasn't an assistant CM either. Speaking from experience, I'd advice against it. It wasn't long before the Pack began relying on my for everything and "Khaliela will do it seemed to be their manta."

                    I got burnt out and crossed my son over to BS after only 1 year of Weblos and told everyone of my plan 6 moths out; Nobody believed me. When I left the pack was so used to everything being done for them that they ended up hiring a college kid to take over as CM after several months of prenatal refusals.

                    If you do this, in the long run it will hurt your pack.


                    • #13
                      For the time being I will be wearing two hats. The search for a new DL is in motion. The ACM made it clear he would not take the role for only six months(his son is a W2), I was plan A, he was plan B, there was no plan C. I informed my Den first, the Pack was notified shortly afterwards. From the feedback I have received so far, this is a welcome change.

                      Now do I buy another shirt, or velco the leader position patches between meetings?


                      • jblake47
                        jblake47 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I guess I wouldn't have a problem with the CM coming in and running the den on a temporary basis.

                    • #14
                      Per BSA you can be REGISTERED as only EITHER Cubmaster (CM) - OR - Den Leader (DL), but NOT BOTH.

                      This means you can REGISTER as CM, but do the jobs of BOTH CM, and DL. Unfortunately, even with a very small Pack such as yours, burnout on your part is a very real possibility if doing both the CM, and DL job.

                      FYI - Your Pack MUST have a registered Cubmaster to be able to re-charter. For den leaders, all that is needed for re-charter, is ONE REGISTERED den leader in the entire Pack.

                      So, the boys in your den are Wolf Cubs?

                      Since you were the Tiger.and Wolf den leader, you should know these parents pretty well by now. Which parents seem the most able to handle the responsibilities of a den leader? Which seem the most committed to SCouting? Which have/had the most fun at meetings?

                      Find the 2 parents in your den who YOU think would make the BEST POSSIBLE den leaders. Then have a face-to-face, heart-to-heart, talk with them, and convince them to take on the den leader positions. Offer as much mentoring/support as you are able to give (be honest, and actually be there for them). If they both refuse, then take a deep breath, and go down the list (YES, you SHOULD have a list) to your next best candidates, and ask them.

                      So on - and so on - down the list of qualified adults, until you have the leadership in your den covered!

                      Good luck!


                      • Pack18Alex
                        Pack18Alex commented
                        Editing a comment
                        My unit roster lists the multiples, and I was specifically told that our COR was allowed to be her son's Den Leader, but Cubmaster should be different and ideally Committee chair as well.

                        Not disagreeing with what you are saying, just pointing out that they let us put that down.

                      • JoeBob
                        JoeBob commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I planned to stay out of this discussion until I read the usual BSA circular drivel:

                        "No one may register in more than one position in the same unit, except the chartered organization representative (CR) (who can multiple only as the committee chairman (CC) or a committee member (MC)), and the parent coordinator (PC), who may multiple as chartered organization representative."

                        The CR can be CC or MC, but no other role.
                        And the PC can be CR.

                        Huh? The PC can be CR, unless he is himself, because the CR can't be the PC. Anyone else follow this?

                        Is this just poor punctuation obscuring that it's okay for
                        the CR can be CC or MC, or PC?.
                        Last edited by JoeBob; 08-19-2013, 11:25 AM.

                      • ScoutNut
                        ScoutNut commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Not really "circular", or "drivel".

                        Simply a bad editing job.

                        When BSA first introduced the "Scout Parent", and "Parent Coordinator", nonsense a number of years back they seemed to slap it on the Adult Application at the last minute without a proper proofread. So, instead of simply adding PC as another option for the CR to be able to double as, they added that rather awkward last comment instead.

                        Of course BSA could simply drop the whole silly "Parent Coordinator" title altogether. I don't think that there are that many folks out there that need a separate, "snazzy", registered title, in order to do their job as a Committee Member.

                    • #15
                      This is, unfortunately, a common occurrence. Agree completely with those that suggestion you can't effectively do both - it will lead to burnout and the program will suffer. It may have to happen for a short period of time, though. If so, a top priority should be putting together an org chart with a succession plan.