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How far to go to help a boy earn his rank?

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  • How far to go to help a boy earn his rank?

    We have a boy in our pack, who has not earned his bobcat, wolf, or bear ranks. He is now a webelos. He was signed up for webelos' camp, but did not attend. All the other webelos attended camp. At camp, they earned readyman and quite a bit of outdoorsman. There were many others, but these are the only two they did that are required for arrow of light. Am I obligated to do these activity badges again for the boy who missed them? Also, we have to make plans for the webelos to go on a hike, do an outdoor activity with the boy scouts and attend a boy scout meeting together as a den. What if one boy misses? Do we have to do it all again? Can they do it on their own as a "make-up"?

  • #2
    Sounds like he or his parents are really not interested in Scouts. His Bobcat badge is a no brainer. Why spend the extra time with him if he cannot earn this?

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    • #3
      In the past I have gone way out of the way to help a young man earn rank.....From scheduling make up days, which no one showed, to even going over to pick them up and no body home. The three make up days I spent doing chores in the CO.....


      The boy has already missed wolf, bear, no way to make it up.


      I wouldn't bother...

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      • #4
        I would do them again if we had new Webelos at the start of the school year. If all of the Scouts in that den went to summer camp then maybe not. But I would be sure to let him and his parents know he won't earn AoL without those.

        I always repeat the major stuff in den meetings after summer. It won't hurt the other boys to go over it again and they can "help" teach it. But we have always gotten new scouts coming into 4th and even 5th grades.

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        • #5
          Without the Bobcat, he can't earn his Webelos rank, so Bobcat should be his first focus. I wouldn't worry about doing the Readyman and Outdoorsman requirements over again just for him because his past performance pretty much shows that he is not going to earn his AOL. I have a similar situation with a boy in my den, and I'm just trying to get him to focus on earning his Webelos rank by the end of his 18 months. AOL is way out of reach for him due to missing too many activities and not completing homework. Just getting the Webelos rank would be a great achievement for my particular boy.

          I have the same question you have about attending the Scout meetings with the den, if one of the boys can't make it. I imagine that the boy will just have to make up the meeting on his own because I doubt I will ever be able to get the whole den together to attend a troop meeting. I thought about just bringing my son along with the boy who missed the troop activity, so at least we can say that part of the den went. I'm also hoping to visit 2 different troops, so hopefully some of the boys who miss one meeting can at least attend the other. I'm curious to see what others post.

          Comment


          • #6
            I failed to visit other troops and just went with the troop connected to the pack. Don't make my mistake. Interview each troop as you would a potential employer. Demand to see their program calendar along with the costs for each outing. Drop in on a couple of troop meetings unannounced, see if there are any older boys active in the program. How many Eagles they have and how fast they get there are not important criteria. In fact this is a good subject for a new post.

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, one of the Wolf Electives is to help a Scout earn his Bobcat Badge. Sending him off to be taught the Bobcat by a Second Grader might be a good step towards getting him to put up or shut up. You're LDS so only 12 months for him as a Webelos, he's not going to earn AoL, but so what? Honestly, I'd worry about a Boy with a Wolf/Bear Badge and some arrowheads getting his AoL, a boy that doesn't care, don't risk anyone else's advancement for him. If he shows up and has fun but doesn't earn Ranks, that's fine, but don't slow down your serious Scouts for him.

              As a Den Leader, I always have an Elective Project planned. If I know ahead of time that a boy can't make my meeting, I do an elective instead of a requirement, and push the requirement off. Occasionally I get told, often I don't. In Tigers, I did some make-up for one boy who had a sick relative sucking his parent's time dry, we all helped him catch up in one meeting, he was ecstatic, and his Denmates had fun helping him.

              I think that going out of your way to get a non-serious Scout Arrow of Light, the HIGHEST honor in Cub Scouting (and one that stays with you your entire Scouting Experience including as Scouter) is a disservice to your serious Scouts and will cause them to not care. I wouldn't want this Scout to get Arrow of Light and I wouldn't do anything to promote it. Now if he gets a bug up his ass and decides to earn it, good for him, but I wouldn't risk a Wolf getting one less Arrowhead to help an unworthy Scout sneak off with AoL

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by christineka View Post
                We have a boy in our pack, who has not earned his bobcat, wolf, or bear ranks. He is now a webelos. He was signed up for webelos' camp, but did not attend. All the other webelos attended camp. At camp, they earned readyman and quite a bit of outdoorsman. There were many others, but these are the only two they did that are required for arrow of light. Am I obligated to do these activity badges again for the boy who missed them? Also, we have to make plans for the webelos to go on a hike, do an outdoor activity with the boy scouts and attend a boy scout meeting together as a den. What if one boy misses? Do we have to do it all again? Can they do it on their own as a "make-up"?
                Well, if the boy has not earned his Bobcat, than, even if all other rank award requirements were met, he still would not be able to earn Wolf, Bear, Webelos, or AOL. Bobcat MUST be completed BEFORE any other Cub rank award can be issued.

                Since you are an LDS Pack, this boy will be a Webelos Cub Scout until his 11th birthday. At that time he will automatically leave the Pack, and cross into an 11 Year Old Boy Scout program.

                This will happen even if he never completes ANY Cub Scout awards at all.

                I would not go to any extraordinary lengths to get him his Webelos, or AOL awards. If you want to concentrate on anything, concentrate on getting him his Bobcat.

                After that, provide him the opportunities to complete Webelos requirements. Give him (and his parents) information about completing missed activities on their own (including the requirement that the Scout must document his work to be approved by you or someone you assign). If you have any new Webelos you can start them off with some of the activities this Webelos has missed, and include him.

                Bottom line is that if he has the opportunities to complete the work, and chooses not to, that is his choice. Let him enjoy his last year as a Cub Scout having fun his own way.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think the problem with bobcat are the two requirements that must be done with a parent. Speaking of that, the fitness activity badge also requires much to be completed at home, with a parent, so webelos may not even be obtainable for this boy. (If he does get bobcat finished.) I am aware that bobcat must be earned first. The boy didn't even complete the requirements for the other ranks anyway. As an LDS pack, we all know which boy scout troop the kids will join. (Even if it is sub-par.)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So his parents aren't into it and won't help. Either the boy doesn't really care, or he has the worlds worst parents... All the Mormon's I've met have been stellar parents, maybe you found the rejects.

                    Either way, I wouldn't worry about him at all. Let him have fun. If you feel bad, talk to him for 10 minutes about the importance of Rank Advancement, maybe he'll go home and finish Bobcat with his parents. If not, oh well, life moves on.

                    But derailing the Den's advancement for boys that might actually do their Webelos Rank and Arrow of Light for him is silly.

                    Comment


                    • christineka
                      christineka commented
                      Editing a comment
                      This boy's family isn't active. His parents are divorced or separated or something and there's an extra guy and kid living at home. (Not sure what the exact situation is.)

                    • qwazse
                      qwazse commented
                      Editing a comment
                      It sounds like you'll just have to make less of a big deal about advancement. The boy is in a situation that you probably can't fix. Until these parents (or the extra guy) make scouting a priority, the boy's stuck. Just make sure the meetings are fun for everyone involved.

                  • #11
                    How about for the rest, though? What if one boy is sick or something on the day of the hike or the boy scout outdoor activity?

                    Comment


                    • qwazse
                      qwazse commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Most troops will arrange for a Webelos to visit on nearly any of their outdoor activities. But really, that falls on the parent, not you. Give the parent the contact info for the scoutmaster(s). Obviously, if you have time to take the den on a couple of different outdoor activities, that's awesome! If not, move on.

                    • dedkad
                      dedkad commented
                      Editing a comment
                      qwazse, it falls on the den leader because the AOL requirements say to visit a troop WITH YOUR DEN. That's why she's asking and why I'm asking.

                  • #12
                    Originally posted by Pack18Alex View Post
                    Well, one of the Wolf Electives is to help a Scout earn his Bobcat Badge. Sending him off to be taught the Bobcat by a Second Grader might be a good step towards getting him to put up or shut up. You're LDS so only 12 months for him as a Webelos, he's not going to earn AoL, but so what? Honestly, I'd worry about a Boy with a Wolf/Bear Badge and some arrowheads getting his AoL, a boy that doesn't care, don't risk anyone else's advancement for him. If he shows up and has fun but doesn't earn Ranks, that's fine, but don't slow down your serious Scouts for him.

                    As a Den Leader, I always have an Elective Project planned. If I know ahead of time that a boy can't make my meeting, I do an elective instead of a requirement, and push the requirement off. Occasionally I get told, often I don't. In Tigers, I did some make-up for one boy who had a sick relative sucking his parent's time dry, we all helped him catch up in one meeting, he was ecstatic, and his Denmates had fun helping him.

                    I think that going out of your way to get a non-serious Scout Arrow of Light, the HIGHEST honor in Cub Scouting (and one that stays with you your entire Scouting Experience including as Scouter) is a disservice to your serious Scouts and will cause them to not care. I wouldn't want this Scout to get Arrow of Light and I wouldn't do anything to promote it. Now if he gets a bug up his ass and decides to earn it, good for him, but I wouldn't risk a Wolf getting one less Arrowhead to help an unworthy Scout sneak off with AoL
                    Now, probably not for this boy, but I had a boy in a Webelos Den go from no Scouting Experience to Arrow of Light from late September to March.

                    Comment


                    • Pack18Alex
                      Pack18Alex commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Like I said, if he gets a bug up his ass and decides to earn it, good for him. It is totally doable to decide that you're going to earn this award in 6 months... It's almost tragic that nothing you do in your first 3 years of Scouting goes on the Boy Scout Award, and whether you do 6 months in 4th/5th grade and earn AoL or be a dedicated Scout since 1st Grade, no difference, but oh well, that's the program.

                      However, if he's been there for two years without interest in rank advancement, I'd make it available to him, but I wouldn't worry about it.

                      When we needed to recruit in the December/January time frame to get some fresh blood in there, I asked what to do about boys signing up, did we need a new Den to march through the requirements, how to do it. They told me at Round Table that if you get people midyear, make sure that they have fun, there is no obligation to rank advance every year. And if they choose to do the work and earn it, great.

                      But yeah, the AoL requirements seem like you can do it focused in a few months.

                  • #13
                    For the boy without his bobcat badge, I would go over all the parts with him. For #8: With your parent or guardian, complete the exercises in the booklet, How to Protect Your Children from Child Abuse. I would step in and tell him to read the booklet and talk to his parent about it. The next time I see his parent--even if that means standing out in the parking lot and talking to the parent in the doorway of their automobile, and ask them to please cover this part with their son. Explain that it says with parent, so you as den leader can't do it with them. If the parent isn't the one driving them to mtgs, I would assume that their "guardian" is doing it, and ask them to go over it with them. If the parent refuses, I might spend 5 minutes in a den meeting going over it with the whole den--covering the basics of don't go anywhere without telling your parent where you are going and getting their permission. There are some what if kind of scenarios in the Wolf badge that would sort of go along with it. and then I would sign it and give the boy his Bobcat badge.

                    And then go from there. Many Many parents think that if you are spending an hour a week with their kid that there should be no reason for homework or no reason for the parent to have to do anything out of the book with them. That's part of what you have to get across to parents that they don't always understand. Go thru and highlight and sticky note the items in the book that you are NOT going to do in the year and that they should do with their parent. and then do your best to get thru the rest of it with them in den meetings. keep communicating with the parents so they understand what is expected of them.

                    Comment


                    • dedkad
                      dedkad commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I honestly think it is important to go over these things with your den as well as your parents. If the parent is the abuser, the boy would need another outlet to discuss the problems.

                  • #14
                    As a Web DL, I held up our den for 1 boys who didn't join until WEbII year... we could have crossed over to Boy Scouts in Feb., we waited until May so the lad could complete AOL, becuase without it, he would not have met the age requirement to cross over with his den. Guess what, less than 1 year into Boy Scouts and the kid is no longer active !! I learned MY lesson... offer the program, make OPPORTUNITIES for the boys to advance, but any catch up / make up is on them. I delayed the scouting expirience for 5 other boys (we still did fun stuff / web only campouts / etc...) for the better part of 3 months for a kid and his family that didn't even stick it out for two years in the program.

                    I'll never make that mistake again. I teach, I lead the program, but if you're not there when the class is offered, its on YOU to do the make up and seek ME out to sign off on the advancement. If the horse is truely thristy, he'll find his was to the trough.

                    A sadder, but wiser ex-DL.... Dean

                    Comment


                    • #15
                      Year after year new leaders will continue to post questions like this.


                      I was the king of chasing scouts.....Wasting days if not weeks of effort chasing boys and families who either weren't into scouting or just don't/didn't care.

                      Like dean....the boys quit or don't show for the extra help......
                      Last edited by Basementdweller; 07-14-2013, 11:28 AM.

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