Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Young Siblings & Day Camp

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I considered a tv and movies while we were stuck inside but they said no electronics, lol. We finally got to go outside Thursday and Friday so we set up a sprinkler, tiny pool and a bubble station. Another mom helped out and taught them duck duck goose, hide and seek, etc. (Some knew them already but they still had a great time.)

    Comment


    • King Ding Dong
      King Ding Dong commented
      Editing a comment
      I know you can't have kids outside in a thunderstorm these days but do you see the irony of setting up a sprinkler when the rain stops ?

      When I was a kid we went outside and played in the rain. Built dams in the street gutter, stomped worms, and skidded out on our bikes. We would run inside when the tornado sirens went off. Times change.

      As I type my wife is at a Mom and Me overnight camp stuck inside a conference room with 150 scouts in a thunderstorm. The staff has the boys watching How to Train Your Dragon. NOAA website still only calls for a slight chance of thunderstorms, but has a flash flood warning.

  • #17
    Hey, hey, irony, no irony - after 3 days of moody kids, I was tempting fate with that one for a couple little smiles :P They loved it (and since they didn't get to play in any shape or form of rain) it worked. I too remember going out in the rain and playing all day. The only time I was called in is if mom saw lightning. I understand most of the rules we abide by, though, including these (even if they don't always work for everyone.)

    Hope your wife and son (and the other scouts) can go out soon, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. It was rough (although at least they have a movie, we couldn't even do that!)

    Comment


    • #18
      No Electronics in the tot lot? I know why no electronics for the rest of the campers, but tot lot is not doing the day camp program, it is more of a day care as a service to the volunteers.

      Comment


      • King Ding Dong
        King Ding Dong commented
        Editing a comment
        Camp directors around here are most concerned with angry parents when the $300 iPod is lost, damaged or stolen.

      • jc2008
        jc2008 commented
        Editing a comment
        Yeah I get that, but if she brought in a TV + DVD for the tot lot to watch cartoons on throughout the day.. Our tot lot isn't supplied with a full 5 day program. If we had to do that along with the 5 day program for all the Cub Scouts I would just fall over lol. So the cartoons in the morning or in the afternoon when some are napping is essential for us!

    • #19
      When it was raining we were ALL in one big room (main room of elk's lodge.) If I'd have set a tv/dvd up, we had scouts a couple feet away who would probably watch/etc. And the days it didn't rain we were outdoors (and the tots were pretty content with the non-electronics out there at least.) It was definitely 'fun' trying to plan 5 days worth for them + the rain + help out with the regular stuff (and I ended up den walking as well and bouncing back and forth at the end.) Definitely got my exercise!

      Comment


      • #20
        It's been a while since I was a DL, but one must always beg the question of all these "tots" hanging around CS camp. What insurance does not have to cover any injuries sustained by non-registered participants? Wouldn't it be better served to have these "tots" involved in day-care where there's appropriate facilities to handle their needs?

        Now I don't want to be perceived as a hard-nosed Grinch, but one would think that the resources drawn away from the BSA program to accommodate non-BSA people would not be a good thing. Next thing one will need a "program" to handle all the helicopter parents that want to tag along... Oh, never mind, that's "Family Camp". I don't know about boys today, but when I went off on a scouting adventure, I did not want my younger brothers tagging along and neither did I want my parents anywhere nearby.

        By the way, will all these future CS "tots" expect TV and cartoons all day long when they finally reach the age of Cubbing? I'm thinking there's a lot going on here that sets some serious problems down the road for the program.

        Comment


        • Twocubdad
          Twocubdad commented
          Editing a comment
          Camp standards require non BSA members be covered by supplemental insurance which costs about $1 each. The purpose of the tot lots IS to provide day care for the non Scout children of the volunteers. Not many folks can afford to pay several hundred dollars per child to volunteer for at day camp.

      • #21
        Originally posted by jblake47 View Post
        It's been a while since I was a DL, but one must always beg the question of all these "tots" hanging around CS camp. What insurance does not have to cover any injuries sustained by non-registered participants? Wouldn't it be better served to have these "tots" involved in day-care where there's appropriate facilities to handle their needs?

        Now I don't want to be perceived as a hard-nosed Grinch, but one would think that the resources drawn away from the BSA program to accommodate non-BSA people would not be a good thing. Next thing one will need a "program" to handle all the helicopter parents that want to tag along... Oh, never mind, that's "Family Camp". I don't know about boys today, but when I went off on a scouting adventure, I did not want my younger brothers tagging along and neither did I want my parents anywhere nearby.

        By the way, will all these future CS "tots" expect TV and cartoons all day long when they finally reach the age of Cubbing? I'm thinking there's a lot going on here that sets some serious problems down the road for the program.
        My understanding of Tot Lot, at least in my council, is that it is covered under insurance as part of the camp. I asked this question of both the Camp Director and my DE. My Tot Lot had the female children and young sons of the Camp Director, Program Director, Camp Nurse, Crafts Director, and 5-6 den leaders each day. I don't think all of those leaders would be able to volunteer if they had to pay for 'regular' day care so they could volunteer for Cub Day Camp. I know I would not. Scouts who really want to get away can do Resident Camp, which costs about 30% more for half the time and has paid staff rather than relying solely on volunteers.

        I'm not against movies and electronics, but I prefer to keep an outdoor program as an outdoor program. I can see that they could be valuable in some circumstances, especially in relentless bad weather.

        Comment


        • #22
          I like the concept behind the tot lot, though we don't have them here. I certainly would be more able to volunteer at cub and BS camp if there was some program for cubs at BS camp or a new BS at cub camp. I am in a real donut hole right now. The cost of day care plus camp fees put it to far out of reach. IIRC my old council had a program where if you were on staff you received a significant discount on camp fees. Our council is putting on a STEM BS camp with a supposed "real" MB program. Would love to volunteer and send my BS, but the total cost would be pushing $500.

          Comment


          • #23
            In the 40+ years I have been volunteering for a ton of BS, church, community, etc. organizations, never once did I expect them to provide day-care for my family. As a matter of fact, when I went shopping I never expected the grocery store to provide day-care while I walked up and down the aisles either. I put them in the seat provided and went about my business. Sure, it is nice to have amenities, but when I'm doing volunteer work, I have never expected the organization to "pay me back" with day-care. That's never been a consideration on my part, let alone an expectation. As a matter of fact, it has always irked me that when I donate my time so they don't have to hire someone, when they put some $$'s down for a "certificate of appreciation" is poor stewardship on their part. Charities that ask for my $$'s and expect me to put the check in their self-address stamped envelop for my convenience, I think twice that my donation is going to pay for all that postage instead of the cause I am donating to.

            For me expecting amenities, conveniences, or whatever, is not something I want for my volunteering. I have always lived by the Good Turn thingy. Expect and/or take nothing in return. I guess that's a bit too old-fashioned for today's world.

            Comment


            • King Ding Dong
              King Ding Dong commented
              Editing a comment
              I certainly understand your point about "pay me back". Keep the coffee mug and t-shirt. I view this tot lot thing more as volunteers pulling together to "make it happen". Probably would be better if the tot lot was hosted elsewhere, such as someone's house.

              Churches for years have had volunteers hold "Sunday School" for infants and tots so the parents could attend a Bible study or other classes or maybe even help with a function or administrative tasks. Not sure how much religion those babies crawled away with. I really don't see a difference here. These parents are volunteering their time when they otherwise would not be able to. I don't see the "take" here.

              At our elementary school some teenagers volunteer to babysit the children in the gym so the parents can attend evening PTO meetings. Is that wrong ?

              I don't expect anything from the BSA or anyone else. I wouldn't need a discount on the fees if I wouldn't have to come up with $300 for a week of child care. I just can't do both right now. This council doesn't have that program and I am not going to ask. Maybe next year we can plan for it. One council had a need for more volunteers and found a way to make it work for for them.

              Some people just don't have the financial resources to pay for commercial childcare. My wife and I were fortunate enough to have friends in the pack that were willing to watch our kids for the weekend a couple of years ago so we could attend BALOO/OWL. We had no family in town. Some other parents in the pack could not commit to den leadership but could help us out for a weekend to benefit the pack. Where is the "take" here ?
              Last edited by King Ding Dong; 06-24-2013, 03:30 PM.

            • jblake47
              jblake47 commented
              Editing a comment
              I certainly understand your point about "pay me back". Keep the coffee mug and t-shirt. I view this tot lot thing more as volunteers pulling together to "make it happen". Probably would be better if the tot lot was hosted elsewhere, such as someone's house.

              Churches for years have had volunteers hold "Sunday School" for infants and tots so the parents could attend a Bible study or other classes or maybe even help with a function or administrative tasks. Not sure how much religion those babies crawled away with. I really don't see a difference here.

              -> The difference I see here is the parents are not volunteering for anything. They are receiving something for their participation in the Bible study. I think it's great that there are volunteers helping out so parents can attend the study. Apples and oranges here. The parents are "consumers" not volunteers.
              These parents are volunteering their time when they otherwise would not be able to. I don't see the "take" here.

              At our elementary school some teenagers volunteer to babysit the children in the gym so the parents can attend evening PTO meetings. Is that wrong ?

              -> Here again, the parents are not volunteering for something. The school provides assistance so parents can attend the PTO meetings. It's a nice amenity to insure parents have the opportunity to visit with the teachers.

              I don't expect anything from the BSA or anyone else. I wouldn't need a discount on the fees if I wouldn't have to come up with $300 for a week of child care. I just can't do both right now. This council doesn't have that program and I am not going to ask. Maybe next year we can plan for it. One council had a need for more volunteers and found a way to make it work for for them.

              Some people just don't have the financial resources to pay for commercial childcare. My wife and I were fortunate enough to have friends in the pack that were willing to watch our kids for the weekend a couple of years ago so we could attend BALOO/OWL. We had no family in town. Some other parents in the pack could not commit to den leadership but could help us out for a weekend to benefit the pack. Where is the "take" here ?

              -> Now this is different. The people who watched your kids so you could get training to volunteer is amiable. I'm sure they wouldn't have been inclined to do so had it not been in their house. There your kids were being watched and cared for in an environment appropriate for care. You made arrangements so that the organization you were volunteering for was not inconvenienced. I guess I'm not ready to tell any group I volunteer for that they have to provide something so I can volunteer. That's the payback issue. Now if there were a family or two that said, if you're going to Baloo, I'd be happy to watch your kids for the weekend, that's different than expecting the BSA to provide that service. They get nothing in return. That's true volunteerism. To test that, offer them some money and if they refuse, then you'll know it is a true Good Turn.

          • #24
            Out of the almost 40 scouts that came and went during our camp, at our highest amount, we had 6 tots (and 3 were all from the same parent who ended up over there with us Wednesday on.) I was told they were insured as Sasha stated, that was good enough for me. All the parents had to turn in health forms on the tots (along with scouts and ourselves if we were volunteers) and it was evaluated with us by the appropriate person beforehand. Maybe this is why the tots have to be on scene at camp as well (how do you prove someone's house is safe enough if they are insured through the BSA but they are being kept at a non-BSA related area?) Our tot lot area was inspected on inspection day. I had to show our first aid kit, answer questions, show all the correct documentation on the area (what to do if this, that, etc.) and show what we had for them set up. While I know there are much better methods to this, for us, it worked.

            I work from home, moved to town a little over a year ago and have yet to go to anyone for child care services that I am comfortable with. My youngest doesn't get out much but is very interested in scouting due to his older brother. Since they allow sisters to form their own den during camp (another can of worms I'm sure), they allow the tots to come and while not participating with the scouts directly, to see what's going on and have fun with others their age (maybe fellow future scouts )

            This benefited me, as a volunteer, immensely. Not having a regular sitter/care provider for my son but being very much involved in camp and scouting in general (den leader, made quite a bit of stuff for camp itself - awards, decorations, targets, etc., volunteered for tot lot, have been certified for first aid and CPR among other things) and wanting to be there to lend a hand (and being needed as someone certified in the above with as few volunteers as we had this year) - this allowed me to participate as needed, be there as I wanted to be and not have to put myself out finding someone to watch him late in the afternoon (we had twilight camp, not in the middle of the day as some do.) The same applied to a few other volunteers - all the kids there did belong to volunteers. I know this may not be the way scouting has been in the past (and may never be in some places) but I am new to scouting and really appreciate this.

            My husband was also allowed to attend thanks to us being able to bring our youngest and he ended up being half of the two people able to run the bb gun range. Since he was #4 out of the only 4 people who went through the appropriate training, we were able to have two people there and two in archery so both were available during camp.

            We were both approached and asked to be volunteers for camp - they did not have enough people in all the appropriate areas like they had in the years past. We used some of our vacation days at work to go out of town and take all the appropriate training programs/earn certifications/etc. to be able to volunteer and ensure there was enough people everywhere to let camp continue. We took off early from work each of the five days as well so we were able to be at camp, (me working mostly night shift and my husband not getting in til after dark), which put us out of more money but again, I did not once complain or think twice about backing out because of that (and not complaining now - even when I see the paychecks this week!)

            I know a lot more was posted in this thread, I didn't get a chance to read it all (long day, sorry if I've been redundant.) I hope I am not a 'helicopter parent' (gotta look that one up now) but I did enjoy my time there and as I was needed as a den walker after one didn't show up that worked out well since we had others in tot lot by that time. I don't expect reimbursement for being a volunteer, however, if I have to put myself out financially, repeatedly, for the sake of being a volunteer, I'd have to quit volunteering. I had no problem using my own money for when it was needed during the last year in our den (even if some said I shouldn't have - if I didn't, it wouldn't have happened) but I won't cause us financial problems if I have to do that, miss work, then turn around and pay $150 for a sitter for a couple of hours throughout 5 days on top of it. I love to volunteer, sure thing. I'll pay for things when an issue arises or money is needed. But if there's an option to save me a little bit of money while helping ensure our camp happens, yes, I will take part in that (and I respect those who believe this is not the place but personally I am thankful for it. That's just me

            Comment


            • #25
              jblake, I don't understand your position. The volunteers are not expecting or requiring the camps to provide day care. The camps are providing day care for siblings to allow more parents to volunteer, to increase the already limited pool of potential volunteers. My email Inbox has been full of pleas for day and twilight camp volunteers in the last month or so. Staffing day/twilight camp is a problem.

              When my husband started volunteering with the pack and for camps, etc., with our oldest son, our younger sons were home with me. When more volunteers were needed, I stepped up but my youngest son came along. It was simply not possible financially for both of us to serve as volunteers if we had to pay for day care.

              Maybe it is a local culture thing? I know that when I was young, my mother ran the kid's group for our GS day camp, that was some 30 years ago. I don't know of a day/twilight camp in my area that doesn't run some version of a Tot Lot. It's covered as part of National Camp Director training so it must be pretty common.

              Comment


              • #26
                If one were to go back to the original post, one would see that because no one wanted to volunteer for the day-care of the volunteers, they tagged along in the program. 2 problems, one no volunteers to help the volunteers, and two young kids tagging along while others, who have paid are having to put up with the interruption.

                I totally understand that there are those that can't volunteer because they have family commitments. So be it, they can't volunteer. I don't have a problem with that. But to drag them along and then expect someone to watch them imposes extra work on those in the program.

                If there aren't enough volunteers for a program, then don't have a program. If one wants day-care for the volunteers, and no one wants to baby-sit for the day, then hire someone. Volunteers that show up to help only to have their attention drawn in two different directions are not being honest with the participants that paid for their undivided attention.

                While there are lots of groups doing the day-care stuff for their volunteers it doesn't make it appropriate to the program. And as was pointed out in the original post, not only was there no day-care available, those kids tagged along with the parent and participants. So, the whole conversation about the merits of providing day-care for volunteers is irrelevant, the point being, in this case there was none, but then does the person volunteering now expect such amenities when they are supposed to be doing the volunteering for nothing?

                Comment


                • #27
                  I can really only reply for myself there, as I was the one that ended up volunteering to do it after asked, since no one else would (and my son was one of the few in there.) I talked one mom into helping me the first day (she's registered and was allowed, we grew up together and I figured if anyone would lend a hand, it would be her.) She was supposed to be over snacks but we did not need 4 people over that. The second mom that helped me was assisting in crafts but since her babysitter bailed on her Wednesday on, she said she'd help out since the 'majority' coming now would be her kids (both of these instances occurred after my original post.) I'd love for us to be able to hire someone to watch them so we could focus solely on other areas but I doubt I'll ever see that happen.

                  Comment


                  • #28
                    There is no problem out there that can't be solved. If all the volunteers pitched in a few bucks to hire someone to watch their kids, the problem would be solved. Yes, there are those who can't afford to toss in a couple of bucks, but if the others did, that person could "afford" to do the child care. Heck if 4 parents needed day-care services, one could sit this event out and volunteer day-care instead of helping directly with the program. Take turns and there would always be someone to do the day-care bit.

                    If there are 5 or 6 really qualified people leading the program, all better than me, I'd roll up my sleeves and spend the day doing the day-care for them for the sake of the boys and their program and I would do it as my Good Turn. And if I had the responsibility of looking after kids, I wouldn't be doing it in the woods where the job would be that much more difficult, I'd have the parents drop off the kids at my house, I could have plenty for the kids to do and I wouldn't have to worry about sending out a search party for one of them that wandered off. The goal would be take care of the kids and not interrupt the program their parents are volunteering to provide.

                    Comment


                    • King Ding Dong
                      King Ding Dong commented
                      Editing a comment
                      When was the last time you hired a babysitter ? I can't speak for the whole country but in two different cities in the fly over states it starts at $8.00 per hour for one child and $2.00 an hour for EACH extra child. It is insane. Military friends have described worse situations on the coasts. It was a $1.00 when I was a kid. I am talking about 12-16 year old girls. After 16 they can't be botherd with it. We stopped going out until we moved close to family. It costs $40 just to walk out the door for a few hours and then what are going to do ? You don't have any money left over.

                      A "few bucks" doesn't cut it.

                    • Twocubdad
                      Twocubdad commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I think you're missing the cooperative nature of the program, Stosh. This IS the parents chipping in. If, as a camp director, I can gain 10 volunteers by assigning a couple of them to watch the children of the other 8, I count that as a net increase of 8 volunteers, not the loss of 2.

                  • #29
                    Your idea isn't bad at all (and since we went almost to that extent minus being elsewhere, its doable.) I personally could not have brought that many kids to my house due to room and current renovations being done but if another parent was willing and able to accommodate (and the BSA allowed it without voiding the insurance that covers them) its feasible. We'd have to make sure to have two parents that could be together at all times wherever the location may be and we'd have to check in on the inspection procedures for that (yes, every parent who 'utilized' tot lot had to pay a small fee so if that continued, I assume we'd have to have our tot lot, no matter on location, inspected again.) We'd also have to make sure the parents agreed to their youngest ones going off to a volunteer's house. At daycare, the people who do it are certified to take care of children, so in the end if it came down to it, it wouldn't be called tot lot anymore and we'd basically just have to find someone to sit all of them during that time that wasn't affiliated with BSA (unless someone certified in child care was a volunteer - none of which we had this year.) All depends on who is in it next year, how many need to be watched, etc. For now, I'm just thankful our tots in no way, shape or form disrupted the program itself, everyone had a blast, crappy weather and all :P

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      I just did two weeks across two camps (our District and a neighboring one). One program had a tot lot (run by a Girl Scout Volunteer), the other just had the volunteers bring their other children around. The tot lot approach was better, the girls did arts and crafts primarily, joined us for lunch, and during lunch/den time, they went over and did Archery/Slingshots/etc. The second time, they tagged along with me, got chances to do stuff (after the boys of course), and generally had a blast.

                      If you told me I had to pay for child care for those two weeks for my other children so I could volunteer here, then I would have had to decline and gone to the office. It's hard to take off work plus pay for child care to be a volunteer... I think my wife would kill me. Instead, I paid for my son to attend, went as Den Leader, and my son, daughters, myself, and everyone in my den had a great time.

                      I think that making the effort to get a volunteer for a Tot Lot/Sibling Den should be a high priority. I pay my own way, I pay my son's way, and I gave up a few weeks of my life to watch other kids for free. Not sure why looking for a volunteer to watch the other volunteers children is unreasonable.

                      In planning some training programs, getting a volunteer or two to provide two deep leadership so kids can do sports/crafts seems reasonable to me. I invest a ton of my time to making this a strong program, in addition to paying my own way as a participant. I paid for a babysitter to attend Roundtable once, doing so on a regular basis would be crazy unless the Pack is paying for it.

                      Nobody paid for my undivided attention. They paid for a great camp experience, and they got it.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X