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  • my boy and completing achievements

    My son is 10 and a Webelos cub scout. He recently did all the requirements for the geology belt loop, per what it says. The cub committee member (dubbed "dictator") will not award him his belt loop unless he brings his labelled rock collection to den meeting. I don't see that as a requirement for the belt loop, however. It says to show and tell to your family or den. He showed and told to his family.

    Geology
    Belt Loop
    Complete these three requirements:
    Explain to your den or an adult family member what geology means.
    Collect samples of igneous, sedimentary, and metamorphic rocks. Explain how each was formed.
    Collect samples of three minerals. Explain to your family or den what a mineral is and show and tell about the minerals you collected.

    He earned the belt loop as one of his requirements for the geology badge, which he was awarded at the last pack meeting. If he hasn't earned the belt loop, then he needs his badge taken away.

    She's also saying that in order to earn handyman, he must complete a chore chart for two weeks. The applicable requirement, however states this

    c. Practice: Choose one of the requirements and show how you are responsible
    by doing that task well for two weeks.

    My son already chose to take care of the lawn (not his regular chore) and did so well for two weeks. I do not see how cleaning of the kitchen counter for two weeks could possibly count for completing this requirement, since it is not one of the handyman requirements. Am I reading this wrong?
    Last edited by christineka; 05-28-2013, 07:31 PM.

  • #2
    On the belt loop technically you are correct. However Webelos is different in that parent signature is not sufficient. Since this is a requirement for the badge he should show his work to a leader. In my opinion. Regarding the lawn. Make a chart showing he did mow twice. Ask your dictator to show you in writing where the chore has to be done daily. With that said, realize that Webelos is training for Boy Scouts. Unless to take your son to Merit Badge Mills, this is just a taste of the documentation and proof he will need to show to a counselor.

    Comment


    • #3
      As parent you shouldn't be signing off anything for your webelo scout. This is the transition period to boy scouts....

      If he did the rock collection, shouldn't be a big deal to share it with his den?????? or is it?????


      So what exactly does taking care of the lawn mean??? He mowed it twice???

      I would rather him take out the trash every day for two weeks or wash the dishes for two weeks......


      So look at the character connection....
      List the tasks to keep your home running
      List the tasks that you are responsible for
      Chose one and do it well for two weeks.....

      Ya I think mowing the lawn twice is short cutting the intent of the requirement......To me the intent of the requirement is to show that you have to work every single day to keep a household running.

      Comment


      • #4
        It says to choose one of the requirements and do it well for 2 weeks.
        Here are the requirements:

        And do six of these:
        2. With adult supervision, wash a car.
        3. Help an adult change a tire on a car.
        4. With adult supervision, replace a bulb in
        the taillight, turn signal, or parking light or
        replace a headlight on a car.
        5. With adult supervision, show how to check
        the oil level and tire pressure of a car.
        6. Make a repair to a bicycle, such as tightening
        the chain, fixing a flat tire, or adjusting the
        seat or handlebars.
        7. Properly lubricate the chain on a bicycle.
        8. Properly inflate the tires on a bicycle.
        9. Change the wheels on a skateboard or pair
        of inline skates.
        10. Replace a light bulb in a fixture or a lamp.
        11. With adult supervision, arrange a storage
        area for household cleaners and other dangerous materials where small children cannot reach them.
        12. Build a sawhorse or stool to be used around
        your home.
        13. Help take care of the lawn.
        14. Arrange a storage area for hand tools or
        lawn and garden tools.
        15. Clean and properly store hand tools or lawn
        and garden tools in their storage areas.
        16. Label hand tools or lawn and garden tools.
        17. Put together a toolbox for common repairs
        around the house. Be sure the toolbox and
        tools are stored safely.

        My son did not mow the lawn. I never said he did. He helped set up the sprinkler system and weeded a lot. (This was a month ago, when our lawn was just starting to regrow.)

        How do you offer documentation? Should I have invited the webelos' leader to come over and watch my son weed? Or taken photos to prove it? I could make up a chart right now, saying he did it. Then he can show his leader and she's going to believe it, just as she should without the chart. I'd be the one "okaying" the chart, so why not the achievement? Yes, the leader is the one signing things off, but after I, as parent say he did it and then how do you prove or disprove that he did or didn't do it?

        Comment


        • #5
          The usual household chores are required for Family member. For that he does have to make a chart with all the jobs of the whole family, choose an extra one that he doesn't usually do and do it for two months. (We better start that one soon!)

          Comment


          • #6
            Wow, I think the wording on the requirement is screwed up.....

            So the way it reads is a boy can change a light bulb and then make sure it works for two weeks.......That can't possibly be correct. I need to dig up my sons book and look at it. Build a saw horse how do you do that for two weeks.

            When I was WDL we would use the household chores and chart those for a week..... We would check the oil and change the tail lights and tires on my truck, we would do a bike rodeo and the boys would inflate their bike tires and lube their chains......of course change a light bulb.....



            Sounds like you have a history with the den leader already. So if he is not working on activity badges, what is he doing at the den meetings.

            Comment


            • King Ding Dong
              King Ding Dong commented
              Editing a comment
              There are several good points here. I looked it up. The wording is screwy, the BSA likes to keep us on our toes. Even if we point it out to National some moron will think that requirement still makes sense. Ask the Dictator what requirement of those listed he should do for two weeks. Change his bike tire every day?

              Regarding the proof. In these type of requirements the proof is trustworthy. When the den leader asks the boy to describe what he did, does it seem credible. When he can offer evidence then he should. The parent should not be the one telling the den leader he performed a task except to verify.

              Until recently I had a sprinkler system and no trees so taking care of the lawn meant mowing it. Now a large part will be moving sprinklers and picking up debris. That is a good candidate and sounds like the scout did a great job.

              The Family Life chore chart does not say he needs to keep track of anything. That is adding to the requirements. It simple states "make a chart showing the jobs you and other family members have at home. Talk with your family about other jobs you can do for the next two months." All that is required is a list of jobs and to "talk" about other jobs. Nothing about doing them or tracking them. The Dictator can't add to the requirements. The next one says to track your budget. #2 does not.

              BD, where did the OP indicate the Den Leader does not work on activity badges in the meetings.

              To the OP, in Boy Scouts the troop will not work on MBs in the meetings, if they are following the program.

          • #7
            It's the committee member that I take issue with. The Webelos' leader currently has issues with family members who need a lot of care. The committee member came in to help with webelos (instead of spying on bears/wolves as she did before). They did geology for a month. Then the cub master got her husband to volunteer to do Handyman with the boys last week. I'm told they did the character connection today. I was told when my son joined webelos that it was my responsibility to get my son to do the requirements for Fitness, do her "homework" packets (I don't agree that those packets fulfill the requirements- as in- it's not enough. Many belt loops are supposed to be completed at home. (Not sure how I can get my son to play team sports. I don't have the money to sign him up for league sports as other webelos have done.), and I was just informed last week that I need to do aquanaut with him myself because cub scout den/packs can't go swimming. We had Webelos' camp a few weeks ago and the den leader expects the boys to finish up anything they started there at home, which was a lot. (I'm trying to find a scientist, who we can visit at work.)

            Also, unlike "regular" cub scouts, boys in LDS scouting have only one year for Webelos. They enter at age 10 and move to boy scouts at 11. That isn't a lot of time to earn 20 activity badges. and Arrow of Light.
            Last edited by christineka; 05-28-2013, 09:40 PM.

            Comment


            • King Ding Dong
              King Ding Dong commented
              Editing a comment
              As BD said, why does he need all 20 ? Kind of nuts to try and fulfill the requirements as written in 12 months. These people do not understand the point of scouting. The reason for those belt loops in sportsman is to get the den playing together and form friendships. Webelos does involve homework, but what you describe is just NUTS.

              My son did none of the required belt loops in Webelos at home, he did them with his den. The belt loop is play a game of kickball, not a whole season. NUTS.

              Cubs go swimming together all the time all over the country. Council Cub Camps have swimming, done it many times. Have her show you in writing a prohibition from National that says cubs do not swim together. That's just NUTS. In fact a certified life guard is not required. have her go to myscouting .org and take Safe Swim Defense. Unless the swimming thing is a LDS rule, if so my apologies.

              Don't stress about a scientist. A high school or middle school science teacher will work. Know a nurse ? Don't try and tell me a nurse is not a scientist. Know a computer scientist. Not all science is beakers and goggles.

          • #8
            Originally posted by Basementdweller View Post
            Wow, I think the wording on the requirement is screwed up.....


            I think so too, but I figure a boy could keep the family vehicle in shape (washing, checking the oil, and air pressure) or keep his own bike in working condition, or in my son's case- take care of the lawn. My husband saw a laborer in my son and made him help with the weeding, of which there was a lot.

            Comment


            • #9
              Why does he need all 20 activity pins......If memory serves....he only needs 11 to get his AOL.

              I am in a non LDS unit and the boys typically join the troop in February of their first year in Webelos. We attend Webelos resident camp Aquanaut, Geologist, Forester and sportsman and a Webelos woods event, readyman, outdoorsman, scientist ....Den meetings handyman, Enginneer, artist, fitness and showman..........Super easy to finish the AOL in 9 months.


              In reading the OP's other post I think her son is the webelo in the pack.

              Comment


              • Basementdweller
                Basementdweller commented
                Editing a comment
                We have this discussion I think annually here..

                There is no set age for boys entering cub scouts.....Home schoolers drive me crazy about this.....

                Tiger Cub—Must be under the age of
                8, who has completed kindergarten or
                is in the first grade or be age 7.

                So what about the 5 year old home schooler who tests at a first grade level. or the school system that starts kids in kindergarten at 5 instead of 6........


                Many schools start the kids earlier....so it is very possible to have a 4 th grader in boy scouts....I think lisabobs son was one of them.


                To answer your question, yes I had a number of boys who were 10.5 during their 4th grade year and joined the troop. Generally most of the previous years webelos have joined the troop by Christmas.

              • Basementdweller
                Basementdweller commented
                Editing a comment
                We have this discussion I think annually here..

                There is no set age for boys entering cub scouts.....Home schoolers drive me crazy about this.....

                Tiger Cub—Must be under the age of
                8, who has completed kindergarten or
                is in the first grade or be age 7.

                So what about the 5 year old home schooler who tests at a first grade level. or the school system that starts kids in kindergarten at 5 instead of 6........


                Many schools start the kids earlier....so it is very possible to have a 4 th grader in boy scouts....I think lisabobs son was one of them.


                To answer your question, yes I had a number of boys who were 10.5 during their 4th grade year and joined the troop. Generally most of the previous years webelos have joined the troop by Christmas.

              • Basementdweller
                Basementdweller commented
                Editing a comment
                wow thats odd....I tried to post it a couple of times and gave up....

                Now I check back and it posted 4 times over a half an hour period.....odd

            • #10
              There are 3 webelos in the pack at this time. Two more will come in in July. The boys do not need to earn all activity badges, but my son likes earning things and he wants to get them all completed. (His father did and has his 80's pins to prove it.) At weblos' camp, the boys mostly completed geology, scientist, readyman, engineer, naturalist, forester, and completed only a few requirements for outdoorsman. Other than camp, we only do den and pack meetings. The boys should be able to complete arrow of light after 6 months, but there's the compass badge and the points to earn as well.

              Comment


              • #11
                christineka,

                I advise you to take a few moments and reflect on what you want your son to get out of scouting. Do you want him to learn and practice life skills that he can use, or are you looking to accumulate accolades, pins, awards, trophies...?

                Why do you think that it would not be beneficial for your son to get up in front of his den, show them his rock collection, tell them about it, show off what he learned? Being comfortable talking in front of a group is a learned and practiced skill. Starting to do this at a young age and continued doing so with every opportunity, (whether required or voluntary) will benefit him in high school, college, and life.

                Practicing keeping records aka the chart for home chores for 2 weeks - why is it such a big deal to you? Doing a chore and keeping record of it is within the ability of a 10 YO. The benefit of making a habit of doing so will pay off in life. Once your son gets to middle school and high school, keeping a list of what needs to be done and what he has done will keep him current and help him do his best in school I make a list every day of what I want to do and what I accomplished, at home, at work, and for my hobby. I get accomplish more that way, and spend less time in "time-sucking" activities such as watching tv, things people do when they don't have anything to do in order to pass the time.

                I'll be frank, and say that based on the attitude that you present in your posts, I would not want your son to cross over in to any scout troop that I was involved in. If you think that a committee member that wants your son to develop life skills is a "dictator", and a "spy", and that awards are more important than skills, then I think your perspective is skewed. Skills will help your son in life. pins, belt loops, patches, awards, trophies, will not do so in and of themselves. They will only help him if they provide incentive to try a harder and learn and do more than he otherwise would have. To give awards for minimal effort and legalistic arguing may make you and your son feel good in the present, but if you think they do a whit for his future, you are mistaken. I recognize that it is likely to be mutual - that you would not want your son to be a part of a unit that I would be part of, because I want boys to be focused on adventure in the outdoors, and not on the awards for the awards sake.

                Comment


                • Basementdweller
                  Basementdweller commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I was thinking the same thing Veni.....

                  I hinted around what I thought in my first post.

              • #12
                Originally posted by Venividi View Post
                christineka,

                Why do you think that it would not be beneficial for your son to get up in front of his den, show them his rock collection, tell them about it, show off what he learned? Being comfortable talking in front of a group is a learned and practiced skill. Starting to do this at a young age and continued doing so with every opportunity, (whether required or voluntary) will benefit him in high school, college, and life.
                In this case- because he's already earned and been awarded the activity badge that the belt loop was required for- and we have no den meetings before the next pack meeting. If she had come up with this requirement before today, I would have made my son do the extra made-up requirements. I've read the webelos' book multiple times now. There are many more requirements that actually say the boy has to tell his den about it. In fact, after the cub scouts visited a museum, I mentioned to the committee chair that if the boys discussed what they learned about at the museum, that they would pass of a requirement for geology, but the committee chair did not start that discussion.


                Originally posted by Venividi View Post
                Practicing keeping records aka the chart for home chores for 2 weeks - why is it such a big deal to you? Doing a chore and keeping record of it is within the ability of a 10 YO.
                It's a big deal because he already did the lawn care for two weeks. Chores isn't required for Handyman- it's required for citizenship (which he completed with a chore chart) and again for Family Member (which he will start soon, since it takes 2 months) I don't see a problem with making a chore chart. I see a problem with making a chore chart for the wrong requirement!

                Originally posted by Venividi View Post
                I'll be frank, and say that based on the attitude that you present in your posts, I would not want your son to cross over in to any scout troop that I was involved in. If you think that a committee member that wants your son to develop life skills is a "dictator", and a "spy", and that awards are more important than skills, then I think your perspective is skewed. Skills will help your son in life. pins, belt loops, patches, awards, trophies, will not do so in and of themselves. They will only help him if they provide incentive to try a harder and learn and do more than he otherwise would have. To give awards for minimal effort and legalistic arguing may make you and your son feel good in the present, but if you think they do a whit for his future, you are mistaken. I recognize that it is likely to be mutual - that you would not want your son to be a part of a unit that I would be part of, because I want boys to be focused on adventure in the outdoors, and not on the awards for the awards sake.
                You don't know this committee member. She is takes on the role of dictator. She has also been attending our bear and wolf meetings for the sole purpose of making sure we did what she dictated- or else we would endure her wrath. (Despite the fact that her son is a member of another pack and has completed everything that can be completed without a parent.)

                I am offended that you would think I would skimp on making my son complete his requirements. His webelos' leader handed him packets to complete for Citizenship and Fitness and told me he simply needed to fill them out and he would earn those badges. I then checked the Webelos' book. The two did not mesh. I made my son recite the Pledge of Allegiance and then tell me in his own words what it meant. The worksheet, where he had to choose one of two words that closely matched the underlined word, imo did not meet the requirement. The packet also did not contain a service project. I made my son actually come up with and do a service project- unlike all the boys, who were awarded Citizenship without having to do the service project (for the Citizenship pin, which was required.) At camp, my son did not complete all of the requirements that the paper stated he would complete. We came home and I made him do them completely. He had to show what to do in various emergency and first aid situation- not just sit in the group, while they collectively discussed what to do. And there's more. I did not have to make my son do the complete requirements. The other boys did not, yet they earned the badges anyway.

                Comment


                • #13
                  Mrs. Ka -- Venividi's observations are on target. I hope you will take his comments in the spirit in which he offers them and reconsider your attitude toward the leadership in your son's pack. The leaders may be off base, they may be asking more of your son because they think he can do more or they may just be doing the best they can. But give them the benefit of the doubt. The time and effort they devote to your son and the program entitles them to that. Secondly, consider what your son is learning from this -- that sometimes you have a "tough boss" and need to grit your teeth and go the extra mile? Or that he can count on his mother to plow the ground in front of him?

                  Thanks, V. I thought I was going to have to be "that guy" again, but you said it well.

                  Comment


                  • #14
                    My biggest beef is, where in the Committee Member duties does it state "decides whether boy has earned the award or not"? Shouldn't this be under the jurisdiction of his Webelos' den leader? She already marked my son off on completing the geology belt loop weeks ago. She also believes me, that my son has completed the requirement of doing lawn care for two weeks.

                    Comment


                    • dedkad
                      dedkad commented
                      Editing a comment
                      You've already admitted that the Webelos den leader is awarding badges without doing all the requirements. And it sounds like the Webelos den leader has temporarily turned over their duties to the Committee Member. Maybe the Committee Member has seen what has gone in the past and is making an effort to correct the situation, albeit a little too far to the other extreme.

                    • Basementdweller
                      Basementdweller commented
                      Editing a comment
                      EDW have you read the posts.....

                      she does not need applauded or praised.....she needs to stop and step back from her sons scouting experience.

                      Vendi hit the nail on the head with this one.

                    • King Ding Dong
                      King Ding Dong commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Seriously guys, she needs to step back from her sons scouting experience and let these nuts ruin it for him by adding to and subtracting from the requirements. These people are presenting this boy with a moving target. Just how long do you expect this boy to stay and enjoy scouting ?

                  • #15
                    Yeah, you're probably right. Maintaining strict adherence to jurisdictional lines is the top priority in the proper function of a Webelos den. We must be vigilant that unauthorized committee members and ad hoc volunteers not improperly involve themselves in den operations. Our prime objective -- ensuring Scouts earning all 20 Webelos activity pins -- could be jeopardized.

                    Lawyer on!

                    Comment

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