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  • #16
    As I think further about dealing with this issue, it occurs to me that the previous CC, who did an excellent job, is still around although not a member of the pack.

    I saw her at the Webelos Arrow Of Light/Crossover ceremony and roller skating activity held a month or so ago at the local roller rink.

    Any suggestion on whether you would draw her into this, and if so, how?

    Great comments so far! Thanks.


    • #17
      >>"Any suggestion on whether you would draw her into this, and if so, how? "


      • #18
        As a unit Commissioner who is observing one of my units failing because of lack of effective leadership, I sent out an e-mail to the Pack Committee Chair suggesting that a Pack Commitee Meeting be scheduled to check on the progress made at the previous meeting. Copy to the Scoutmaster.

        No response.

        The Pack Chartered Organization Rep and Cubmaster both attended my Cub Scout Roundtable last night, and I was able to meet with them both after the meeting.

        At the previous Committee Meeting, the Cubmaster chaired the meeting (the Commitee Chair doesn't have the skills for that) and recruited several volunteers to fill leadership positions.

        Last night the Cubmaster told me that most of those people had backed out or were leaving the pack.

        I promoted my pet idea of appointing a strong and capable Committee Chair to replace the current Commitee Chair, who wants to quit anyway.

        The Cubmaster initially resisted that, preferring to concentrate on other issues first, an approach that hasn't been working.

        After we talked things out for a while, he agreed that getting an effective new Committee Chair was something that needed to be done, and he agreed to ask the very impressive business executive type who was going to be Assistant Cubmaster to be Committee Chair instead.

        Anyway, we have a new strategy to try out. The Cubmaster is going to let the COR and I know if we have a new Committee Chair, and if not there is another good candidate who can be approached.

        Our District Executive was listening in on the last part of this conversation without making any comment. After the meeting was over, I suggested that this was probably the most important thing a Commissioner in the district would do this month.

        But then again, was I TOO BOLD?


        • #19
          What, by nearly breaking your arm patting yourself on the back to your DE?


          • #20
            Okay, I NEVER saw where SP said the CC was going to be replaced..especially by SP.

            What I did see was SP stating that the CC needed some prodding because - frankly, the CC was just sitting on his/her butt and doing nothing.

            The CM holds a meeting and it goes great, so we realize that it's not the entire comittee or leadership that doesn't care, just that they hace noty had comittee meetings that the CC is usually in charge of holding and presiding over.

            So SP asks, Is it time for " Plan B ", and if so, what should " Plan B " be.

            Then it is mentioned by another poster that the pack needs a new CC.

            And it's obvious that the pack does need a new CC.

            So as a unit commissioner for a failing pack that is about to go under, I believe that Seattle has not only the right to suggest to the CM and COR ( as well as committee members) that they need to find a new CC, But I think as a fellow scouter - who is not only experienced with scouting, but as trhe UC also - that SP owes it to the pack to make any and all suggestions that will help the pack out.

            No need to create a "white elephant" type atmosphere where everybody walks around a dysfunctional CC .

            Drop the existing CC and get a new one.

            But of course, we are talking about the pack committee and leadership doing this with the blessing of the COR - which is exactly how I took SP's post to mean.

            I never once saw where SP said he was going take it upon himself or that he thought it was his job to do so.

            But it is his job to suggest it when it is blatantly obvious that , that is the only option available when the current CC just dosen't or cany do the job as required to be done.

            Remember, scouting is for the scouts, not for the sake of some person who doesn't even try to do anything.


            • #21
              I'm clearly taking an activist tack as a Unit Commissioner in this situation. Reasonable people such as some of those posting are objecting. My own doubts about that are expressed in the title of the thread.

              You'll notice that I took the advice given earlier in the thread and got the COR involved, along with the Cubmaster on whom most of the burden of running the pack has fallen.

              The District Executive was waiting around for us to get out so he could lock up after the Roundtable. He wasn't there when we started the meeting and I didn't plan or expect him to be there.

              The situation we have is that the current Committee Chair has never been effective. The Cubmaster shouldered the burdens of the Committee Chair, but he is leaving as Cubmaster in August.

              With the prospect of no Committee Chair and no Cubmaster, I decided that it was important to start shaking the tree for new, effective leadership. The COR and CM are now on board with a strategy to do that, and we'll see how it works out. If it doesn't, we'll be looking for alternative strategies within a week or two.

              Was I TOO BOLD? Still an interesting question. The saga continues.


              • #22
                In this thread I've been relating the issues facing a Cub Pack that has had a weak Pack Committee Chair, which also meant a grossly overloaded Cubmaster, who gave notice he is leaving that position in August.

                The Committee Chair also wants to leave that position.

                My suggestion a month ago in a meeting with the Cubmaster and Chartered Organization Rep was to ask a dynamic business executive to be Pack Committee Chair, on the theory that if an effective Pack Committee Chair was doing that job, it would be relatively easy to find an effective person to serve as Cubmaster.

                At the Pack Committee Meeting last night, the application for that new Committee Chair was completed, signed off and turned in to the DE, although the new CC wasn't there to run the meeting.

                I sent the new CC an e-mail on on line training and expressed the hope that the CC, COR and CM would find a new Cubmaster at the upcoming Pack overnight camping trip and pack meeting.

                So my bright ideas are being given a trial. We'll have to see if they work with the new CC doing that job effectively and finding the best person to serve as Cubmaster in particular.

                So have I been TOO BOLD as Unit Commissioner? So far, I'd say no. From ineffective strategies that weren't working, we have gone to a strategy that has replaced a weak Committee Chair with the BEST person available. An effective if new Committee Chair combined with an experienced but departing Cubmaster and an excellent Chartered Organization Rep ought to be able to combine to find an effective new Cubmaster, is my theory.


                • #23
                  I hope it works out! Please keep us all posted.

                  To play devil's advocate, just because someone is a successful and dynamic business leader, does not mean they will automatically understand and lead a successful non-profit/volunteer-run youth organization. Donald Trump would be a terrible den leader (or pack committee chair).


                  • #24
                    Well, today was the beginning of the pack's end of the Scout year campout, which was a fine activity.

                    It was also an opportunity to try to sew up the leadership issues of the pack, and I attended the campout today with that in mind.

                    I was asked to take charge of building a rope monkey bridge by the Cubmaster, which I did with the assistance of a couple of parents.

                    After a very nice dinner, I had a chance to talk about leadership issues with the new Committee Chair and the COR. The COR offered to become an Assistant Cubmaster, an offer which was accepted by the Committee Chair.

                    So instead of having a weak Committee Chair and a very overworked "Cubmaster who does everything" who was ready to quit with no replacement in sight, we then had a highly promising Committee Chair and a new but promising Assistant Cubmaster. Could finding a new Cubmaster be all that tough to do in that new environment?

                    No, it wasn't. The person that was the Cubmaster's first choice to be Cubmaster refused the position when the Cubmaster was obviously grossly overworked.

                    But the new CC sat down with that prospect and explained that he and the new Assistant Cubmaster would be partners with the new Cubmaster, and making sure that other families were taking responsibility for doing tasks that had fallen to the Cubmaster by default recently.

                    Well --- that made the Cubmaster position a lot more attractive, and the first choice candidate agreed to take the job.

                    Of course there are still issues. That's a lot of new people who will need to figure out how to manage the pack. But a dynamic new CC and a capable and enthusiastic Assistant Cubmaster (just took Wood Badge), and a promising Cubmaster ought to be able to sort through those issues.

                    A LOT better than when I started this thread, with a discouraged and overworked Cubmaster who was planning to quit at the end of this summer and no prospects willing to take over the position.

                    As a Unit Commissioner yes, I was rather pushy. But I had a good relationship with the discouraged Cubmaster, who was willing to try my idea of appointing a dynamic business executive type to replace a weak Committee Chair.

                    The new Committee Chair was agreeable to checking out leadership prospects at the well attended overnight camp today, and agreeable to the offer of the COR to be Assistant Cubmaster. I pointed out to the CC that he was free to ask me to take a hike if he didn't like my activities, but he was glad enough to get some help solving a critical problem.

                    And the CC and current Cubmaster worked together to recruit the best prospect to be Cubmaster.

                    So was I BOLD as a Unit Commissioner ---- yes.

                    Was I TOO BOLD? I'd say no. I took a few chances but they wound up being supported by pack leaders, and the result was a much stronger new generation of pack leaders whose main problem will likely be learning how to manage the pack in the months to come.


                    • #25
                      The only hole I see right now is that COR isn't supposed to be co-registered as Asst cubmaster. COR can be coregistered as CC or as committee memeber, but basically they aren't supposed to have a hand in the committee side and the program side. So probably suggest he works on recruiting a 2nd ASM or even 3rd.

                      Best year in my pack we had a committee member and ACM from each den. The ACM's took jobs like being in charge of songs, skits/run/ons/audience participations, games, and advancement ceremonies. of course the advancement ceremony guy worked closest with the Cubmaster and took over his job.


                      • #26
                        Too bold? That's subjective and depends on the relationship you have with the people you were talking to. You can call your best buddy ugly names and he'll laugh. You can say something slightly offensive to a stranger and end up being reported to the police.

                        If you have been a regular presence there, and you have established some trust with the unit leaders, then offering a little nudge in the right direction isn't too bold.

                        If you are a new UC for that unit, and traditionally they have been the kind of unit that doesn't welcome a UC in to visit, then you might have snuffed out your candle with them.

                        With you, probably the former.


                        • #27

                          The COR will be completing a new Adult Leader Application for Assistant Cubmaster.

                          When the pack re registers at the end of the year, they can either find a new COR or the CC can co register as COR.

                          This is a "Friends Of" pack that doesn't have an independent Chartered Organization.

                          I'm not sure if registering as Assistant Cubmaster would automatically void an existing registration as COR.


                          • #28
                            Unless the system has been substantially upgraded (I doubt), I'm pretty sure it won't void his other registration. Might check w/ your district membership chair on that, though - they'll probably know.


                            • #29
                              Technically the system is set up to not allow the registration in both positions. The registrar may be able to force the issue.

                              when our ASM became COR, the application wouldn't go thru and it took a call to national and eventually they just had to remove him as ASM first at the national level so the code for COR could be entered.

                              So if he changes to ACM that would make you COR-less. Technically the pack doesn't exist if there is not a COR. This may or may not be an issue for operation of the organization, however, as a UC you should know that it's never a good idea for a pack to be acting without a COR in place.

                              If they are self chartered, the COR may also be Institution Head/Executive Officer of the Parent's of Organization. so you'd be removing someone from both positions potentially.
                              Realize that the unit cannot approve any new leadership without a COR to sign the applications.


                              • #30
                                This is a self chartered "Friends of the Pack" unit.

                                I imagine the COR will sign her application to be Assistant Cubmaster.

                                She'll probably sign whatever other adult leader applications need to be signed until rechartering. I'd be surprised if the council catches this, but they might.