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How to get rid of a problem leader

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  • How to get rid of a problem leader

    I have been trying to find information on how to dismiss a Den leader that has become a real problem in the pack. I am not sure what action has to be taken or what is the best way to go about this. This person is one that will cause trouble for the pack when told he is no longer needed. I have a commitee meeting scheduled. How do I get the dens funds, and church keys?
    also is there away to get this person unchartered?
    thank you for any help of informaiton you might have regarding this problem.

  • #2
    Welcome to the forum.

    I assume that the COR, CC and CM are all in agreement that the DL's volunteer services are no longer wanted and that a new DL has been recruited.

    You mention that you have an upcoming committee meeting. Assuming the DL will be present, the COR, CC and CM should wait until the end of the meeting and ask the DL to please remain (if you communicate to the DL that he should arrive early or you want to schedule a special meeting, there is a good chance he will not show). Have a letter prepared, signed by the appropriate pack leadership, that includes a statement as to the termination of den leader responsibilities and a listing of the things you require be returned (den funds, keys, etc.) along with a deadline. There is a very good chance that unless you have required full accounting of funds by den leaders, you will get no money out of this leader, since he can just say it has all been spent on den activities. I would not expect any separate 'den funds' would be significant (at most one month of den dues), however, if it is more then you need to decide how hard you want to chase him for it. If he refuses to turn over the keys to the church, usually a friendly call from your 'church facilities guy' will rectify that situation.

    It would not hurt to document for the pack files the reasons for the termination. Likewise, the CC may want to give your District Exec a heads up that this is happening, given the expectation that the man may try and create problems.

    The boys and parents of the den need to be provided with information (appropriate to each)so that they understand the change in den leadership. Likewise, the new DL needs to be given whatever support he/she will need from the pack leadership to make sure the boys do not suffer in any way from the leadership change.

    Best of luck to you.


    • #3
      Hold on Semper dude. While your process is sound, it's based upon a really big assumption.

      csm, some questions:
      - Just so we know where you're coming from, what is your role in the pack?
      - How do the parents in his den feel about him? Is it unanimous?
      - Is Semper's assumption correct?

      The reason I ask these questions is that I often see people frustrated with a leader, but it is just their opinion. No one person can (or should) be able to get rid of a leader (except maybe the COR). I've known of situations where a bunch of the pack leaders really butted heads with a den leader, but come to find out, the parents of his den loved him. I also know of leaders (including yours truly) that try to run the program by the book but are criticized by parents who want special priveleges for their sons, or don't agree with "the book". The most common one I've seen are parents wanting us to not have true boy leadership. In most of these cases, they know that their son will never be elected to a position on their own.

      Anyway, I digress. Help us understand your situation a little better. It's always good to look at the situation from all angles.


      • #4
        I would like to get some info on this topic as well. We have a den leader that is taking evening classes. I am all for higher education, however, her classes keep interfering with meetings. The time and place of meetings have been changed once already. Now the assistant leaders are running the show. The leader and her son are usually not there, or are very late to meetings. She refuses to turn over the den, dues, or records. She is hateful to the assistants that are doing their best to keep the den going. Granted, kissing the money goodbye would be painful but not terminal. Records however, are essential for tracking the boys progress. She has been somewhat inactive for several months, and totally inactive since the end of December. Adding to the confusion, our CM has experienced an ongoing family emergency that has required non-involvement there too. My hubby is Assistant CM and is planning to meet with the DL first to try to resolve this problem. He will also be taking over as CM soon as ours will have to step down due to the family situation.
        Thanks for any advice on this one.


        • #5
          I would hope that we never ever use terms like "Dismiss" Or "Get rid of". This is the Boy Scouts Of America not the cosa nostra..
          The removal of a volunteer is no small matter and needs to be handled carefully after a lot of thought, careful communication and I would hope only after every other avenue has been explored. It is also worth remembering that many of of volunteers do have children in Scouting and whatever action is taken does impact them.
          There are certain circumstances where the Scout Executive can revoke a persons membership in the BSA. Normally the SE will suspend the person while he investigates and makes sure that he has got all the facts straight and will then take the appropriate action.While this action is taken very seriously, it is done very much on a need to know basis.
          At the unit level the easiest way to remove a volunteer is to not have them on the Unit Charter. All of us serve in the position that hold for the period of the charter. In most cases this is 12 months.
          While many of us look at rechartering as being a real pain in the neck, it does offer us the opportunity to take a long hard look at the unit and the performance of the leadership. This is the ideal time to make changes. Unfortunately we do not do a very good job of telling or reminding people that their appointment runs from year to year.
          The reasons for removing a volunteer are not the same in every case or in every unit. So how or why the decision is reached will not be the same in every case.
          I however must disagree with SemperParatus.If a unit volunteer is to be removed the only people that need to be involved are: The Unit Committee Chairman, The Chartered Organization Head or the Chartered Organization Representative and The Unit Commissioner. ( If there is no Unit Commissioner, work your way up the line: Assistant District Commissioner, District Commissioner or the Scout Executive.) There is no need to involve the Unit Leader or the Unit Committee.
          Unit Leaders are in charge of delivering the program to the youth members.While unit leaders can state the case to the chartering organization, as to why the volunteer should be removed.
          There is no need to have the entire committee involved with the removal. They were not the people who selected the volunteer. The Unit Commissioner is only there in an advisory role. The District can not remove a volunteer.
          A unit leader could if asked by the CO accompany the Unit Committee Chairman and the Unit Commissioner, when they visit the volunteer having first made an appointment. At this meeting which if at all possible should be at the home of the volunteer the COR or the CC should ask for all unit property to be returned.Hopefully it will be turned over then and there, if not arrangements should be made to ensure that everything will be turned over in a timely manner.
          Depending on the reason for removing the volunteer, he or she might be able to join another unit. He or she has only been removed from the unit not from the BSA.
          Keeping the procedure to as few people as possible avoids embarrassment to the person who is being removed. It avoids people from saying things that they might later regret. It also helps prevent "The story" from becoming larger and larger as more people retell it.
          We in the District that I serve have just replaced our District Commissioner. The decision to remove him came from the Nominating Committee. When people asked me why? I replied that he is a very nice person (He is!!)But he just wasn't the right person for the job. Understandably when I told him that he was not coming back as the District Commissioner, he was hurt and upset. I using all the tact that I could come up with answered all of his questions as truthfully as I could. I did not report to him who said what at the meeting of the Nominating Committee. At the District Committee meeting that followed my telling him, I informed the District Committee and thanked him for all the wonderful and good things that he had done for the District and for me. I didn't want there to be any fallout which would harm the District or the Council.
          PS The Removal of a volunteer is covered in the Commissioner Fieldbook for Unit Service, No.33621


          • #6
            let me echo Eamonn,

            All leaders in all units, including the CC, are in their jobs for one year only and must be renewed for the next year.

            Recognize everyone for a great job and then recruit whoever you want and the CO will approve for the next.

            If you inform everyone and that is their expectation, then it doesn't feel like being fired. You can actually promote someone for doing a lousy job, then they can move right on up the ladder.



            • #7
              I think I resemble that remark!

              Wolf DL was fun, this CC and Pack Trainer stuff has a heavy taint of seriousness!!!!!!!


              • #8
                Ditto to those who say "recharter time"...unless there are safety, YP, or criminal issues involved. That's the great thing about this; it's "self cleansing". Everybody has to re-up every year, and your committee can opt not to, in the case of a problem adult...



                • #9
                  Ditto to those who say "recharter time"...unless there are safety, YP, or criminal issues involved. That's the great thing about this; it's "self cleansing". Everybody has to re-up every year, and your committee can opt not to, in the case of a problem adult...



                  • #10
                    I should probably give another example from my experience, and an admonition. Okay, the admonition first. Assuming the leader needs to go, if you're leading the coup effort, I hope you're willing to step in and take their place.

                    Now the example. I was a pack Committee Chair, and the Cubmaster was mailing it in. Not isolated examples, but repeatedly. I went to see the guy, and he admitted that he was overwhelmed at work, and bit off more than he could chew. He just couldn't bring himself to bow out, since he volunteered. He was relieved I came to see him. The other shoe is that I got to be the Cubmaster, too, for about a month until we found a permanent replacement.

                    Ditto for our treasurer. The guy wasn't coming to committee meetings, wasn't making deposits, wasn't writing checks, wasn't doing anything. A real head-scratcher for me, 'cuz I knew the guy as a youth soccer coach, and he wasn't a bum. So I called him, and he said he never volunteered for it, but it was handed to him by his predecessor at work, who was the previous treasurer. Shocked, I apologized, and was the treasurer, too, for a couple of months...



                    • #11
                      KS is so right, put all your ducks in order before throwing one back in the water. You have 12 months to do so. Quack, Quack