Hi Basement,

Sounds like this is the new guy's commercial or claim to fame. It's his slogan. I suggest you wait until the next annual council dinner in the spring. Get a hold of the annual report program and I would be willing to bet a nickel that there will be all kinds of bragging about improvements to the "program". Of course you will still be looking for these big changes.

I could be wrong...

Guess we will have to wait and see.

Abel(This message has been edited by abel magwitch)

Your guy makes a hundred grand more than my guy. What's up with that?

Base,
I would expect some changes to start this year and more next if he is committed to the changes. From talking with our DE the first year would really be getting an idea of what is happening and seeing what works and what doesn't then developing his plans to change what he sees as moving toward his vision.
This time frame might be shotened some if he comes from within the Council but I would expect at least a year to start the beauracracy that is the BSA moving.

I've got to echo what pchadbo is saying - I think you need to give him a year to see how the council is currently operating it's program - see the summer camp and day camp programs in action before making changes, see how the year plays out - this fall, he'll have his year - then it'll be time to really watch and hold his feet to the fire if nothing changes

Our old guy moved to st louis or Kansas city......I heard a rumor on what he was makin and looked it up..... I was astonished.....


I was figuring we should see some change by now.....anything for cryin out loud.

What type of program changes would you like to see? You're right, a year is enough time that you should see something, but really, the biggest thing I want out of my SE is not to screw up my unit program. I'm not even really sure what a council program should consist of.

Follow the money.

But look for the little stuff. We got a new SE a few years ago, again, a program guy. Our old SE was the type to stay in his office and develop plans. If it's not in the budget, forget it. The new guy is a bit looser with the wallet. I've been in a number of meetings, generally regarding camp stuff, where a suggestion was made which required money. Of course everyone looked at him. "We can do that" is his frequent response and "It's doable, but give me a chance to juggle some things" is about as negative as he gets.

We're not talking new dining halls, but stuff like new shotguns and clay launchers, new canoes, accelerated replacement schedules for tents -- you know PROGRAM stuff. And the longer he's here, the bigger ticket the stuff seems to become. Shower houses, trail shelters, program shelters, etc. The key is, look at who gets to use the stuff they're spending money on.

Well no new bb guns or bows, the swimming pool still leaks, the shower house is a disaster still. Water is still turned off to most of the camp because of leaks....

I was at day camp and they had set up tents for resident camp......they were new coleman, the $50 type from walmart...


Not sure how the SE could mess with my unit program.....


I am hopeful things will change for the better....My boys deserve the experience I remember

Base,

a few comments from a former pro.

1) It can take longer than a year to get things going. A new pro needs to see what is going on and get a feel for things before making changes. TRUST ME, someone coming and trying to change things right away, even if they are the way things are suppose to be, WILL tick off someone.

When I came into my district, it was a mess. I tried to change things to get them the way things are suppose to be and I ran into some opposition, not only from my bosses but also the volunteers. Not as bad as a friend who had some volunteers come to his door and threaten to give him a butt kicking, but I did have some nasty "discussions" and a very nasty letter left on my door.

An aside. DO NOT MESS WITH RECON MARINES (emphasis). Friend responded to threat by saying, "I haven't had a good [butt] kicking in years."

2) If you really want a good program event, it will take a year of planning. I know the CSDC I use to work for began planning for the next year after the campers left.

3) While SEs do have a lot of power, the committee can still hold you back. On a district level, I know of district committees that have 1, 2 people max form the cub scout side of things, and everyone else is Boy Scout, Venturing, or both. Tring to add district Cub activities is mixed, sometimes easy, sometimes not. But bet your bottom dollar if a CS event gets scheduled and the Boy Scouts want the weekend, all kind of howls of protest will occur.

5) Look at council level programing to see change.

When they say "program guy" it's probably code for someone who's not an "admin guy".

Difference is the program guy is in it because he believes Scouting is THE movement to change the work. The admin guys are just happy to be in a career with advancement opportunities, lower-scaled but competitive pay, and truly making a difference. Of course it sounds like your former SE was an admin guy and so followed the job, which is where his heart is. The new guy probably just wants to say he loves Scouting and wants to support your love for Scouting and relate with you on that level instead of being seen as the automatic villain because he makes a six figure salary in an organization you give time, money, and energy to.

That could just be the naive volunteer believing the best in folks, but I prefer it to being such a bitter cynic. OR it could just be that I've been lucky with the DE's and SE's I've worked with and find it incredible that it sounds like such an epidemic of evil is sweeping our nation in the form of money grubbing, volunteer hating Boy Scout Council staffers.

Hello Basement,


I would presume that a Scout Executive needs to be a lot more than a "program guy." He's got a large and complicated organization to run, and concentrating on one set of problems like program is a waste of time if it means neglecting other problems

A Scout Executive needs to identify the various issues and problems a council faces, and to come up with ways to deal with those varying problems.

Perhaps you aren't seeing noticeable program improvements because there are other problems that need to be settled.

I find that I have several opportunities to address questions to my SE during the course of the year, and get replies. As an example, at our University of Scouting one course period people can sign up with is a meeting with the Scout Executive and the Council President, and usually a dozen or more volunteers elect to fire questions at these council leaders and get replies, if not answers.

Fairly often before or after council volunteer activities the council executive makes herself available for questions.

You might want to look for that kind of opportunity to ask "what about the program emphasis you talked about?"

Well, we have a nice new council office.


Guess just depressing, his letter offered hope and I am seeing it is just the same old bureaucracy.

So call him on it. Send him a letter asking what program improvements he has implemented. Ask how his new program changes impact the boys in your troop and pack. Specifically ask about fixes for some of the BS things you've described over time here.

Make the letter positive and encouraging. Let him know you are excited to have a "program guy" running the council, but that means you expect much and will hold his feet to the fire. Ask what you can do from the trenches to help.

"...his letter offered hope"

Hope and Change, where have I heard that before

I do not depend on anything council or district does for my daily program. Better to depend on yourself.
I guess we need council to keep advancement records, and our district does Eagle board of reviews and some required training for new leaders. Other than that I have no need for them.

I use to be a big district supporter, no more.

Just my 2 cents