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  • Pressure Cookers

    Decided to add a small capacity (3 liters) pressure cooker to the wanigan. Reason, besides being used for cooking,, been watching the water quality of the rivers in our area becoming ever more polluted, my thinking is that the higher temps of a pressure cooker would provide an additional level of protection to ensure clean drinkable water.... having just ordered the PC, I'll post updates over time as to how the device is working out.....

  • #2
    Do you now have a black Suburban parked outside your house?

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    • #3
      So, I have understood that most of the biologicals in water die after about 165 degrees F. Boiling just insures the entire column is at or above that temp. Is there something I'm missing that would require the extra few degrees from a pressure cooker? Or are you thinking the extra heat would drive out any volitale chemicals? Not criticizing, just curious if I've missed something.

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      • #4
        Boiling is pasteurization, not sterilization. Boiling will kill, or render harmless most bacteria, where as sterilization kills everything. The problem of concern are spores. which can not be deactivated and render harmless by boiling, the temperture is too low... thus, the pressure cooker serves an autoclave that will raise the temp to sterilize water. Additionally, at higher elevations boiling becomes less effective. I know for backpackers that weight is everything...but, that small amount of additional weight is not a concern for canoeing. However, for those interested both Hawkins and GSI makes small backpackable PC's... Also, it would not suprise me, that within a few years to see NOLS, as well as other outdoor groups going this route as water quality continues to decline ...
        Last edited by le Voyageur; 08-04-2013, 06:30 AM.

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        • dcsimmons
          dcsimmons commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks for the info. So are you using the PC then as your only method to prep water or will you be filtering first?

        • le Voyageur
          le Voyageur commented
          Editing a comment
          Was filtering with a Seychelle Advanced Filter (water straw) which I will continue to use due to heavy metals


          http://store.seychelle.com/Products-...ter_Straw.html

      • #5
        >>> Do you now have a black Suburban parked outside your house? <<<<

        In case anyone wondered what this was all about:

        http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/0...-WORK#comments

        Comment


        • #6
          Besides currently owning three PC, and a Pressure Canner that could hold a nuke .... I'm far more interested in making pickles, jams and jellies, then bombs....got no interest in harming others, so, no concern. If some agency has concerns, they're free to drop by. I'll serve black coffee, scones with homemade butter along with homemade blackberry jam.....but, switching horses to this

          http://www.salon.com/2013/08/04/glob...worse_partner/
          Last edited by le Voyageur; 08-05-2013, 06:01 PM.

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          • King Ding Dong
            King Ding Dong commented
            Editing a comment
            I do my part by making sure all water I use gets recycled.

        • #7
          Been wondering why I've never used PC's in the outdoors. I've now become aware that traditional pots and kettles waste fuel, a lot of fuel compared to a PC... made beef stew, done in 20 minutes vice 1.5 hours. And my favorite bean recipe, down from 2 hours and 30 minutes to just 15.....steel cut oats with dried apples, a mere 7 minutes...talk about a wake up call for this old dog.....

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          • #8
            We only use a PC for canning but from that process I can see problems using it outside. Unless you are real good with a fire you have less controll over how much heat it produces than a range. If it gets to hot, to much pressure. Not sure what happens then, either the weight pops off and your stew does a geyser impersonation or the lid pops off or it goes Boston. They are heavy, so is a Dutch oven. Cooking at high temp and pressure will change the cooking results. Presumably texture and flavor, not to mention nutritional value of some foods. Maybe a good thing in your opinion, maybe bad. Low and slow seems to be the consensus for nutritional value especially with vegetables. I am sure there are other opinions on that.

            Comment


            • perdidochas
              perdidochas commented
              Editing a comment
              From what I googled, pressure cooking is recommended as a way of cooking to retain nutritional value of vegetables. Microwaving is also a good method. Fast is best in terms of nutrient retention.
              Last edited by perdidochas; 10-24-2013, 09:46 AM.

          • #9
            IIf I may, I'm not a Unit Leader, but a Council Member at large that serves as a river guide for our Council's high adventure programs. It's from that perspective that I'm coming from. . As canoeists we've more options then backpackers as to weight...... following LNT guide lines, we've said goodby to campfires except on those rare occasions where fires are permitted, and are now using Stansports Outfitter propane stoves with 5 gallon tanks as they are more efficent for groups then Whisperlites, and Pocket Rockets. As such, the safety concerns of using PC's (mine is a Hawkins 3L hard anodized) isn't an issue since the stoves have controllable burners. However, you are most correct concerning the placement of PC's on campfires, or coals which should never be done......thanks for bringing that concern up...

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            • King Ding Dong
              King Ding Dong commented
              Editing a comment
              Now you are going to have a black canoe shadowing you.

          • #10
            for personal use ok....

            For troop use it is a dicey proposition in my book.......too much can go wrong with a very young cook.

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            • #11
              OK, just for fun....what temperature is necessary to eliminate human pathogens? (Hint: It isn't as hot as you might think) And then, at what altitude does that temperature equal the boiling temperature? (Hint, it's a really tall mountain)

              Comment


              • King Ding Dong
                King Ding Dong commented
                Editing a comment
                I know from the new FDA cooking guidelines released a couple of years ago it is not just a function of temperature, but also the time at a specific temperature. It really depends on the pathogens you are trying to kill.

                Generally 140 F over a 35 minute time frame, but there are some bacteria that can still survive IIRC.

                If IIRC you cannot rely on a specific altitude, but must know the current atmospheric pressure. Learned this from calibrating my PID smoker controller.

                Sous vide cooking uses this principle. Very low and slow. But seriously who wants to cook a chicken breast for 24 hours ?

                I wanted a Thermapen but $89 was just out of reach, so I settled on a Themoworks RT 600 6 second thermometer. Grilled food tastes much better now that I can dial it in better. Hopefully the new Cooking MB will address this issue better. I really think all patrols should have a good digital thermometer.

              • packsaddle
                packsaddle commented
                Editing a comment
                KDD, what is the predicted boiling temperature for water on, say, Mt. Everest...call it 29,000 ft? Yeah, I know that's a bit less than Everest really is, but humor me...the troop is unlikely camp there anyway.

                Also, I'm asking about human pathogens, not bacteria in general.

              • King Ding Dong
                King Ding Dong commented
                Editing a comment
                If the local pressure is 9.298 inches Hg then the boiling point of water at 29k is 154.551 F. If my calculations are correct.

                Again from my understanding of the science it is a function of temp and time. Are you looking for an instant kill temperature ?

                Some unreliable research shows it to be 163 F. I don't trust that number however, because it does not take into consideration environmental factors.
                Last edited by King Ding Dong; 08-15-2013, 07:33 AM.

            • #12
              Giving a thermometer to a scout and then telling him to cook to a temperature??????

              Why not teach him to cook correctly and safely at camp with out all the extra gear?????


              At the top of everest isn't the boiling point like 150 degrees or something silly like that????

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              • King Ding Dong
                King Ding Dong commented
                Editing a comment
                Ah, now I get it. Science = paranoia. Intuition = fact That's cool.

              • Basementdweller
                Basementdweller commented
                Editing a comment
                So the patrol canoe trip was fantastic....Boys did great, they cooked a hot lunch not my first choice but ok....

                Did 14 miles in about 7 hours including lunch? They made chicken tacos, very good.

                How did your scout outing go this weekend?

              • King Ding Dong
                King Ding Dong commented
                Editing a comment
                Sounds like a great canoe trip.

                Mine went well, certainly challenging. I had no clue face first rappelling was part of the program. They call it Angel, but seems like it is generally known as Ausssie style. That one took me a few minutes to go over the edge. The site my group was one was about 50' with 10' of overhang then just 40' of free fall. It didn't help that the copperheads were out in force and we had just found one at our site that was tossed over the cliff. He had been sunning in a crevice right behind one women's legs for about 45 minutes before we discovered it. One pissed snake waiting to ambush me at the bottom.

                I suck at climbing open rock, but eventually got the hand motions correct for the belay. I did not like standing on the tower at the other camp, something about the 360 degree open space was troubling. Will need to get used to that.

            • #13
              Thinking about BD's question, is there a source of hot dogs that are NOT pre-cooked?

              Comment


              • blw2
                blw2 commented
                Editing a comment
                makes me think of a scout trip as a youth. Freezing rain at night while we slept. Couldn't start a camp fire for anything. Everything was wet and frozen solid. Ate frozen dogs straight from the cooler for breakfast.

              • Basementdweller
                Basementdweller commented
                Editing a comment
                Last freezing rain camp out what a night mare.....I never thought we were going to get all the gear loaded....folding tents sort of into a big pile..then a week worth of drying.

              • King Ding Dong
                King Ding Dong commented
                Editing a comment
                Pack, it is called a "sausage".
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