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How do you award points at a Concil Camporee

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  • How do you award points at a Concil Camporee

    I am working on developing the program for our 1st Highland games this spring and am working on a fair way to score the troops. We want everyone to participate including the adults. (As who doesn't like throwing sticks and stones). I am working on a spreadsheet that would create an average score per troop that way even the smallest scout can contribute to whether their troop wins.. Has anyone done anything similar or come up with other ways to make it fair across the board as it seems that the big troops are the ones that always win.

  • #2
    "How do you award points at a Council Camporee?" With a Flourish! "I give three points to Gryffindor"

    I'd add some competitions that may test accuracy and agility (like an obstacle course with some tight spots) that might help the young guys. Should they learn some Clan history? Or a competition that requires a group to work together...

    Seems like the High School football conundrum...bigger schools have a bigger talent pool.


    • #3
      Wow, a Potter-themed Camporee just became the coolest idea ever.


      • #4
        I tossed in a few items that balanced out much of the scoring.

        Uniform - 1) "Class-B", 2) partial, 3) full Extra credit if shirt is tucked in.
        Yell - 1) Make one up on the spot, 2) yell, but a joke, 3) Real yell Extra credit for enthusiasm.
        Patrol size based on 8 members - 1) Only part of the patrol showed up for the event, 2) All showed up but less than 8, 3) all showed up with more than 8 members, 4) 6-8 member patrol all present Extra credit for teamwork
        Rank - make adjustment for any patrol member that is not yet FC A TF gets more credit for fire building than a Star

        This way a NSP in full uniform, with a rehearsed yell, 6-8 members all present, all TF may indeed win the event if they do fairly well on the actual skills of the station.

        They don't ask me to judge competitions anymore because it was unfair to "add" these requirements. It solved too issues at the same time, I get out of judging and the big troops always win. Smaller troops simply go through the motions because they know they haven't a chance to win anything. Nothing worse than a NSP of fired up Web II crossovers winning over a mature patrol is boys that think all they have to do is complacently go through the motions to win knowing they have it locked up.



        • dcsimmons
          dcsimmons commented
          Editing a comment
          yeah, I also add bonus point or a time bonus for uniforming, patrol flag, bonus if it's double sided, patrol yell that's for real, etc. Sometimes I give bonus points to a patrol just because they worked together well even if they didn't perform particularly well on the task. Sometimes I dock a super patrol because of their attitude. Yeah, it's considered fuzzy, can't be put into a spreadsheet and calculated with a stop watch. Don't really care. The techno mommies don't like me much.

      • #5
        here's what I have right now.. one of my buddies who is also a piper will be there and if they visit him and try to learn some basic bagpipe chanter work they get points. Although my excel sheet only shows the team scores I am working on having it create pivot charts to show the leaders in each age group and event..

        I had to link it to my GMail Drive as the docs are too large for the forum

        oh b.t.w. potter is so yesterday... just ask my daughters.


        • #6
          Award it to the Best "Clan" not the Best Troop.. (largest vs smaller) issue will be gone,
          You Set the Clan size to 4-8...So stick to that...A Troop shows up as a Clan with 30 Members.They select 8 max to Compete or They show up as 6 Clans with 6 each..their choice. Everyone is always promoting patrol any ways, so make it patrol competition not troop competition

          Award points for "Clan wear" not Scouting Uniforms..Clan wear should be worn all the time, not just here and there.
          Award points for "Clan flag" carried all day to each event..If they just carry to opening and Closing they don't earn points
          Award points for 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Place Finishes in Events....This will meet fairness for Clans of 4..

          Check around you might have a "Medevil Society" around who might be willing to put on a Display..Program
          We Got Lucky and had a Jousting Master do a Demonstration for Us...

          Granted ours was a Cub Scout "Highland Games" look at My Pictures for Ideas. I like the Idea of Themed events.
          John Paul Stoddard is on Facebook. Join Facebook to connect with John Paul Stoddard and others you may know. Facebook gives people the power to share and makes the world more open and connected.


          • #7
            John.. a lot of good ideas that we will already being doing... btw love the kilt.. I have three of them to wear that weekend and our crew wears the McLaren as our dress uniform with our green shirts.


            • #8
              Do extra points go to those who don't have to Google what the games are? i.e. Flodh Gearradh = 2 handed saw.


              • #9
                no... they go to people who know how to read and actually read the camporee docs..


                • #10
                  This is one of the reasons we don't attend district camporees. A typical camporee the winning patrol may score 350 points. Third place may be less than 10 points behind. So while scoring things like leadership and scout spirit you're telling me the scoring system is accurate to one or two percentage points?

                  Of course there is no accommodation for the things you mention like size of troop, age or rank of patrol members. The winners usually came from the troops which ran the events and had adults who knew the ins and outs of the system or who stack their patrols to ensure a winner.

                  Instead of trying to render the competition into first through last place, why not develop standards for what is below standards, above standards and exemplary then award white, red and blue ribbons? This is, after all, how the program works. We don't score all the scouts in the troop then award Eagle to the first place Scout, Life to second place, etc. We have standard. If you meet the mark you earn the award.

                  I suggested this in our district and was accused of being a communist, so beware. Some folks are awfully attached to their first place trophies.


                  • jpstodwftexas
                    jpstodwftexas commented
                    Editing a comment
                    And We Wonder why Traditional Scouting is going the Way of DOO DOO Bird...WE
                    already give every Scouter attending a Patch...Lets just do away with competition because we don't want to Offend a Scouter.. Looking at the Competition They have Age categories so Older Scouts are not Competing With Younger Ones..Main Events are based on ability not subject to sentiment judgement and unfair judging. Shame to See Scouters Refuse to participate in Camporees because they are afraid to lose..If Your Not Afraid of Losing why Not Participate and Show of Your Scouter's Skills. I had a Small Youth Troop rare more than 8 Active Scouters...We Brought Home A lot of Awards and Ribbons Showing up the "Eagle Troops" all the Time

                  • Twocubdad
                    Twocubdad commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thank you for providing the standard response I got from the local knuckle-draggers here. Since they couldn't see any advantage beyond "the way we've always done it," they, too, assumed this approach was another wussy, everyone-gets-a-ribbon system.

                    There is competition and there is fair competition.

                • #11
                  Originally posted by ssullivansr View Post
                  .. btw love the kilt.. I have three of them to wear that weekend and our crew wears the McLaren as our dress uniform with our green shirts.
                  I Borrowed that one...
                  I can Wear 3 Kilts...and yes I wear something underneath


                  • #12
                    didn't ask.. although I have been asked many times as a piper.
                    As to scoring, that is why i am going to an averaging system for scoring over all place. In theory a troop of 5 could beat a troop of 15 off of the averaged individual scores. This eliminates the stacked patrols.


                    • #13
                      Forget spreadsheets. Award sterling (wooden nickels in foil) for whatever you all decide is worthy. At the end of the competition have an auction where boys can bid on gear/food/pwd cars/donated items. Only award by patrols. A patrol of 15, even if they do win a little more "sterling", won't have as much buying power per boy as a patrol of 5.


                      • #14
                        Originally posted by ssullivansr View Post
                        didn't ask.. although I have been asked many times as a piper.
                        As to scoring, that is why i am going to an averaging system for scoring over all place. In theory a troop of 5 could beat a troop of 15 off of the averaged individual scores. This eliminates the stacked patrols.

                        I agree..I would award each category (age division) 1st through 4th with Some award and then Overall based on the the Clans.
                        I would say something like
                        1st Place Event = 5 points
                        2nd Place Event finish = 3 Points
                        3rd Place Finish = 2 Points
                        4th Place Finish = 1 Point

                        Overall Scout = Highest Total based on Top 4 Finishes
                        Overall Clan Based on Accumulated Scouts Scores

                        Some Knuckle Dragging Traditions are Still as good today as they were 100 Years ago..I have never agreed with awarding everyone with equal awards unless everyone equally participates. If ya award everyone a Blue ribbon Scouters will stop trying to do their best because no matter how good they get and how hard they try.


                        • Twocubdad
                          Twocubdad commented
                          Editing a comment
                          You really should try reading what I wrote. Not everyone gets a blue ribbon. There are STANDARDS against which the Scouts compete. Different awards for how well each patrol compares against the standards. If every patrol rates as exemplary, then, yes, theoretically all could get blue ribbons. But you may want to re-evaluate your standards.

                          This tradition, by the way, is at least 40 years old as it is how camporees operated when/where I was a youth.

                      • #15
                        Well around here around here We have been awarding Winners based on 1st through 3rd Place Finishes since at least 1930's. I have no problem awarding through 4th Place as it balances it out a little more toward fairness. Now days the Only Troops who complain are the Ones who have poor skills and never come to events because "they Can't Win" I say it is more because Their Eagles don't have the Skills to compete..I say it is a bit embarrassing when your Eagles Can't Lash, Lose at Fire Building and Starting, Saw Logs, and all the basic Skill events.