le Voyageur 72 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 The end of an era. The powers that be at the Greater Cleveland Council has close Tinnerman, citing declining membership, and increasing maintenance costs. Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 What a shame. While I've never been there a very good friend in the UK and the Venture Unit he is leader of went twice. They had nothing but good things to say and the pics that they sent me were wonderful. A sign of the times, I suppose. Ea. Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Same SE sold my boy hood scout camp a couple of years ago....... It wasn't losing money.....council wanted to consolidate camps on one reservation..... I wonder when the Pro scouters finally sell off all the camps where they will get big infusions of cash. It is a sad state for sure......I hate seeing scout camps disappear. Link to post Share on other sites
desertrat77 1144 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Very sad news...I'm sorry to hear this. Link to post Share on other sites
RememberSchiff 3663 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 A required $200,000 septic system upgrade, and "The Canadian camp is a nine-hour car ride away, and although about half the Scouts who use it are from other councils, Tinnerman is operated solely by the Cleveland council, Craven said. Attendance at Tinnerman has nose-dived by 71 percent since 2002, and a new high-adventure Scout camp to be opened soon in West Virginia's New River area -- less than a five-hour trip away -- will likely cause attendance to drop off even more, he added." ( Pat Craven, Boy Scouts support services director Greter Cleveland Council) http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/10/boy_scout_alumni_banding_toget.html I wonder how many more small local camps within a ten hour drive of the big box Summit camp will go out of business. For the $400m+ Summit cost, 2000 local camps could have $200K septic upgrades. Another telling quote "Our (Greater Cleveland Council) mission isn't to run camps, it's to get those boys to camp so they can still get that high-quality experience." Really? My $0.02 Link to post Share on other sites
The Blancmange 67 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 OK, I'll play Devil's advocate. It does strike me as unusual that a council would operate a camp that is so far from it's area (not to mention in another country). Look at the problems Chicago has with Owassipe. Perhaps a council would be better off supporting camping opportunities closer to home and leaving the distant opportunities to others (National high adventure bases, etc.) Link to post Share on other sites
le Voyageur 72 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 Currently, that now leaves only one Council owned high adventure base, Maine High Adventure. Though this year we had a great turn out with over 40 crews signing up, what is most apparent is how few units from Maine will sign up. It's a puzzle why the Maine councils won't make the effort to better support this program which is in their backyard. Also, I'm concerned about the impact Summit will make on my own home Council (BRMC). We're two hours out from the Gorge, and our New River Adventure program has been running rafting crews in the Gorge for close to two decades. Am sure the powers that be that decided to put Summit in did little to consider their impact on Council level programs. None the less, we do have another program that we run on the upper New, that with a little tweaking could somewhat offset any loss from the New River program... Link to post Share on other sites
Eagle92 110 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 LeVoy, Pamlico Sea Base in East Carolina Council is another council owned HA base. Link to post Share on other sites
le Voyageur 72 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 my bad...thanks for the correction Link to post Share on other sites
skeptic 992 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Pretty sure there are a number of camps in the west also; some have separate high adventure sessions in conjunction with regular summer camp options. Also a sea base in Newport Beach, and special HA activities at Emerald Bay. Still, always sad when camps are lost. Link to post Share on other sites
le Voyageur 72 Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 What I was trying to say in my earlier post, is that I was referring to only those high adventure canoe bases that operate in extreme, and isolated wilderness areas. Of all the council camps, there has been only two...Tinnerman, and Maine High Adventure. With Tinnerman gone, well that leaves only MHA. It hurts to see a camp get sold, but that hurt goes far beyond that with the loss of a high adventure base like Tinnerman. It's one less jewel in scouting's treasure chest of adventures for the older Scout. I've got my fingers cross that we don't loose MHA, and all those adventures in Maine's North Woods....knowing that no longer will be heard the splash of Scout paddles on the French River, and the Georgian Bay is indeed most sad. Such a loss.... Link to post Share on other sites
GKlose 24 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Couple of related thoughts -- Le V, our troop went on our own high adventure trip this summer, in the same general area in which MHA operates. The major issues -- MHA's prices and their 14 year old age limitation. We didn't go on the Allagash, where I'd agree that even 14 is rather young, but MHA still has the limitation on easier trips. And then -- we did a 5-day trip for about $160 each. MHA charges much more than that. B-Dweller, I think you're right about FoS drying up. Same thing happened in our Council, with the sale of a camp. The situation was this -- council consolidations in the early 90s, and historic council camps were kept in place, for awhile. Eventually a new "hatchet man" SE was brought in, and forces the sale of a couple of camps. District (old council) politics set in, and a group of Scouters (whom I sympathize with -- it was their old FoS and sweat equity that built and maintained the old camp) is left out in the cold. We're still seeing the effect, years later, in terms of district volunteers and FoS donations. Issue was taken a step further, about a year ago, when the "hatchet man" SE seems to have forced a district consolidation, which had the major effect of splitting one of the old historic districts (the one that "lost the camp") into pieces. Then in a stunning bit of followup, the hatchet man was axed by the e-board. Guy Link to post Share on other sites
GKlose 24 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 By the way -- there are a couple of other northeast high adventure programs I've seen: Adirondack Trek by Patriots' Path Council (http://www.camps.ppbsa.org/camps/sac/Trek.htm) and the Valley Voyageur program by Daniel Webster Council. I'd agree that the VV program isn't nearly as remote as MHA, but I would think that the Patriots' Path version would come close. Guy Link to post Share on other sites
Basementdweller 608 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 It is just real hard to spend my $$$ to support council or district. I have to pay to attend the Camp beaver days.....it would be a couple of hundred dollars for the entire family. they say it is to provide meals...... Ok guys, so when are the volunteers going to take the organization back???? Link to post Share on other sites
Gary_Miller 10 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Basementdweller, "Ok guys, so when are the volunteers going to take the organization back????" As soon as you get true volunteers sitting in COR positions, who get trained in their position, who understand that they control what happens, who then attend meetings at both district and council level in order to ensure that the district and council does what the units want and not what the professional scouter's want just to make themselves look good. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now