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Summer camp camping that is not in a tent or "under the sky"

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  • Summer camp camping that is not in a tent or "under the sky"

    Camping MB requirement 9a states "Camp a total of at least 20 days and 20 nights.* Sleep each night under the sky or in a tent you have pitched. The 20 days and 20 nights must be at a designated Scouting activity or event. You may use a week of long-term camp toward this requirement. If the camp provides a tent that has already been pitched, you need not pitch your own tent."

    Our summer camp has recently removed all of the tent and platforms, and replaced them with three sided adirondacks. These adirondacks are not tents, and strictly speaking sleeping in one is not under the sky. How would you apply this camping experience to this requirement.

    Here is a picture of our adirondacks, http://www.bsa-gsmc.org/OrgHeaders/2...ondack%202.jpg

  • #2
    Those have a bit a a 4th wall that I suppose muddies the issue. I questioned a similar setup on some tree houses in this thread. My DAC and OA lodge says they count. What scout camp did this and why? http://www.scouter.com/forum/advance...-camping-night

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    • #3
      Stretch hammocks between the adirondacks for any scouts who need to use those 6 nights for the MB.

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      • #4
        What is it about the black or white mentality? Make sure the scout has enough additional nights under canvas or the stars, if that is of a concern; but you would count their wilderness survival shelter, even if it was basically a similar structure. They are still outdoors and in the campsite. If you must cross the t's exactly, then have any boys that need the time "immediately" for some reason either simply sleep outside on a mat, a cot from the Adirondack, hammock (as noted), or bring their own tent for the week. Use common sense, give them enough other opportunities so that this is not an issue, keep the outdoors in the forefront, and stop the micro managing.

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        • #5
          Skeptic, this black and white mentality is what the BSA has forced on us. Below is the direct quote from the Guide to Advancement that has caused this.

          Though stated earlier in this publication, it bears repeating here: No council, committee, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from advancement requirements. There are no camp-related exemptions except those described in “Advancement for Members With Special Needs,” 10.0.0.0. Camp counselors and those assisting them, regardless the circumstances, are not permitted to modify requirements. If requirements as written cannot be competed at camp, they must be done elsewhere, before or after the camp experience.

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          • #6
            Adirondacks have no 'doors' to be 'out of' , so sleeping in an Adirondack is certainly not 'indoors'. I'd even argue that a tent is more 'indoors' regarding bugs and driving rain. You can't zip the flap on an Adirondack.

            Although I can see the grey area, I come down on the side of the boys. They can only use Summer Camp as 6 of their 20 nights total. If you don't count the nights spent in Adirondacks, you're probably the type that likes 22 pages of paper to apply for Eagle.

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            • #7
              IMHO, the Adirondack (or a cabin) doesn't count for Camping merit badge. It's just not the same as a tent or under the stars. It's kind of a moot point, though. I don't know of any scouts in our troop up for Camping merit badge who wouldn't qualify without summer camp. Scouts need to be camping a lot.

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              • #8
                you could always pitch the tent inside the shelter. Also, there seems to be enough of a platform or porch at the front to lay out the sleeping bag

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by perdidochas View Post
                  IMHO, the Adirondack (or a cabin) doesn't count for Camping merit badge. It's just not the same as a tent or under the stars. It's kind of a moot point, though. I don't know of any scouts in our troop up for Camping merit badge who wouldn't qualify without summer camp. Scouts need to be camping a lot.

                  Ah, you are correct. I was thinking of the OA eligibility requirements which say "must" (but leave out what you must sleep in), as opposed to the camping MB requirement which states "may".

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by click23 View Post
                    Skeptic, this black and white mentality is what the BSA has forced on us. Below is the direct quote from the Guide to Advancement that has caused this.

                    Though stated earlier in this publication, it bears repeating here: No council, committee, district, unit, or individual has the authority to add to or subtract from advancement requirements. There are no camp-related exemptions except those described in “Advancement for Members With Special Needs,” 10.0.0.0. Camp counselors and those assisting them, regardless the circumstances, are not permitted to modify requirements. If requirements as written cannot be competed at camp, they must be done elsewhere, before or after the camp experience.

                    It is highly doubtful that anybody is going to second guess a leader's decision on this since it is a unit concern. Personally, I do not worry about possibly misinterpreting a National written guideline, as long as it is not unsafe and makes basic common sense. It continues to throw me that so many of the younger adults live in a world of fear to make "rational" decisions that shade to grey at times, yet can often be frustratingly egocentric if there are no apparent guidelines they need to fit within. Another part of being raised with different parental methods and expectations I guess; being old.

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                    • #11
                      Or, to continue with the theme of beating up on follow members: What is it with all the legalistic efforts to weasel around requirements? Teaching the Scouts to ignore the rules and get by on the bare minimum - or less than that? You're probably the kind that counts an electronic game lockin weekend as a "weekend campout." (No. Actually, that gem is from whoever did the Q & A for Journey to "Excellence." Honest. Who could make that up?) Darn those rules 'cause I don't like them. (Lots of that going around.)

                      Have them spend the nights in a tent or under the stars. There is some Camping skill invoved in either and none involved in staying in a building someone else put up for you.

                      As always, YMMV

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                      • #12
                        I would not get too fixated on the letter of the law. Instead focus on the spirit. Long term camp is for the scout to experience seperation from his family. It's also for him to experience camping with a troop for more than a week.

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                        • #13
                          I agree with JoeBob. OTOH, this unit has abundant tent camping nights so this is really a non-issue for most boys.

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                          • #14
                            While I personally prefer tents these kind of structures do provide other challenges. In my area they are a magnet for wasp nests. It seems every time we open the climbing tower there is a new one. Even the the Trust Fall platform at COPE is constantly getting them. A Scout who sneaks a can of Pringles in his backpack is also more likely to get a midnight drive thru order from a coon. The black bear population is on the rise in MO and at least one has been spotted in every county south of the Missouri River.

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                            • #15
                              I'm with KDD. The three sides are a camp but with their own set of problems. (what? Camp has problems? ). Daddy Long Legs are the bedevilers at our camp. And all along the AT, that is what you will see, Ad-a-ron-dacks. The tent platforms are better for the camper, but , hey, the Ad's are a long term investment, yes? OA comes out in the spring to sweep out the creepy crawlies, instead of the character building canvas throwing party. I say counting these as simply "long term" camping does not dishonor the Camping MB requirements.
                              It is similar to a tent, just a (soon to be) leaky wooden roof instead of canvas.
                              Are they low enough to the ground to be climbed up on? Of course they are. Added value! Signal flags to the next campsite! Jumping down to break ankles! First Aid MB! Ski jumps in the winter! Sun tan beds if not shaded! Ghost story noises for the Tenderfeet! Rocks and gravel tossed and rolled down! Oh, the possibilities!

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