Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hypothetical question re "cross registration"

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Hypothetical question re "cross registration"

    Ok, this is not really a hypothetical question. The topic heading is just me poking a little bit of fun at past threads where a person asked a "hypothetical question" that was obviously not hypothetical. I have, however, "generalized" some of the facts because it actually does concern a real person, but none of the generalizations should change the answer. I should also say that the person(s) directly involved are seeking an answer through official channels, but I just wanted to see what kind of reaction I get here. I suppose I should also say that the young man involved is not my son, who aged/Eagled out of the troop several years ago.

    Part of the reason I am asking this is that I am not really familiar with "cross registration," that is, a person being a member of a Troop and a Crew at the same time. I only know that it can and does happen. I also have heard that one of the units will be the Scout's "primary registration" and the other will be his "secondary registration," but I don't really know what the consequences are. (I know adults can be registered in multiple units/district/council positions as well, but that has no impact on advancement, which is what this question is about.)

    So, let's just say (heh heh) that Joe Scout is a member of Troop 1, in which he has earned all the ranks through and including Life. Currently he needs a couple more Eagle-required merit badges, has an idea for a project that has been approved by the owner of the project and is about to begin the process of writing up his project plan, getting the required approvals for that (hopefully), and proceeding with his project. While a Life Scout, he has been active in his troop for well over 6 months, and during that entire period, he has continuously served in a series of POR's (all of which are listed as POR's for advancement), for well over 6 months. After earning Life, he also became a member of a newly formed Venture Crew, Crew 10. It is my understanding that Troop 1 remains Joe's "primary registration." He immediately became one of the officers of the Crew and served in that position for (let's assume) more than 6 months, and obviously was also active in the Crew for that same time period. He has, at least temporarily, stepped down from his POR in the Crew, but remains in his POR in the Troop. (Which is going to make what comes next perhaps sound a little bit odd, but it is my understanding that there are good reasons for all of this, and the reasons are not part of this discussion.)

    Joe has now decided that he wishes to earn Eagle as a member of the crew, not the troop, but he will remain active in both units. So here is the question, in several parts: Does he need to change his "primary registration" to the crew? And if he does, does the time he has already spent in a POR with the crew "count"? Or does he need 6 more months after switching his primary registration?

    I looked at the Guide to Advancement (2013 edition), and section 4.3.1.4. seems to be the section where I should find the answer. It says that if the young man is registered in two units, he and the unit leaders decide which unit will "oversee" his advancement. (And let's assume that, at least, the Crew Advisor agrees to this plan.) It does not say anything about "primary registration." It does say, "Position of responsibility requirements for Boy Scout ranks may be met by the Venturer or Sea Scout serving in crew or ship positions as outlined in the Boy Scout Requirements book." (I note the word "may", as opposed to "must", but it is possible that whoever wrote that was not thinking of the situation I am posing.) So it seems to me that if he does NOT have to switch his primary registration before proceeding to earn Eagle in the crew, he has already passed the 6-month active and 6-month POR requirements in the crew. If he DID have to switch, what I am wondering is whether the 6 months BEFORE he switched would "count." Or, since he already fulfilled the 6-month requirements in the troop, does the Scoutmaster's signature on those "count"? (And then he would switch and have all future signatures (on blue cards, project workbook, unit leader conference, Eagle application, etc.) come from the Crew Advisor and Committee Chair, and the Crew Committee would participate in his EBOR.)

    I would appreciate any answers on this, with references to the official source of the answer, if possible.
    Last edited by NJCubScouter; 05-02-2014, 03:40 PM.

  • #2
    I don't have official references but I do know a number of scouts who are dual registered. As far as I know the only thing primary registration means is that's where you pay your $24 to national so you don't get hit multiple times. Beyond that they are full members of both units with all the rights, privileges and responsibilities appertaining thereunto. IMNSHO, if he's serving both units as you mention everything else is window dressing and adult drama. But more directly:

    - MB's can be earned in either unit since he was 1st class or greater when joining the crew so check
    - You suggest he's met the requirement for POR in both units so check mark that one either way
    - The project proposal has a unit leader signature so he can get that in either unit so check

    Based on what I've read here the reality is if he wanted to quit the troop tomorrow and finish in the Crew he certainly could.

    Comment


    • #3
      I understand that he could quit the troop, and if what you have written is correct, it would not matter. If on the other hand, he had to do his 6-months active and POR in the unit in which in which he is "primary", it WOULD matter. You are saying this is not the case, and the G2A does not say it is the case, so it seems (so far) that he has already passed these requirements, in the crew. (But, for whatever it's worth, he does not want to quit the troop, for which I am grateful for a number of reasons; he is a good Scout, excellent at Scout skills and teaching them to younger Scouts, not to mention that his parents are two of our most dedicated leaders. He just wants to "make Eagle" in the crew, not the troop.)

      Comment


      • #4
        If the GTA doesn't specify "primary" then it's not a thing.

        Comment


        • #5
          "Primary" sounds like an administrative contrivance or convenience, or what an IT guy thought up so his coding would work, once faced with dual registration issues in databases.

          Per GTA, as you stated, the only thing that needs to happen is a decision has to be made between the scout, his crew advisor and his scoutmaster. And then they are just deciding who's signature goes on the books.

          The question seems to be as significant as "Did Adam have a navel?" I'm pretty sure National/Council can deal with a scout earning Eagle under his "secondary" registration. Districts? Well, the jury is out there

          I think you will find it difficult for people to give you references for something that doesn't exist. Its probably buried in administrative policies and procedures and not meant to weigh down us volunteers in the field.

          So, it seems customary here at scouter.com to raise questions to the OP when you think his premise is false. I feel obliged:

          The scout really cares that much about who is signing his book, or does he think one unit leader will be "easier" than the other?

          Why isn't his active and POR requirement signed off yet?

          Comment


          • #6
            Over the years I have been dual registered many times. Basically what it has amounted to is under which responsibility do I get the mail.

            As ASM in a Troop, I was primary as CA in a crew, so I would get CA mailings from council. Then when I became SM I was primary so that I got SM mailings.

            I'm currently UC primary, but SM of a new troop. I'll have to go to council to switch those so I get SM mailings.

            Other than that, how is one's POR fulfilled in one unit and credited in another? Just ask any Den Chief. I have offered troops in the area of older boys if they wish to dual register so as to help out with my new troop. Got no takers, but if they served as TG in my troop I would make sure he got credit for it in his primary troop.

            I'm thinking it's nothing more than paperwork, mailings, and communication that makes dual membership not really a problem.

            Stosh

            Comment


            • #7
              It's like Son #1 had an evil twin 6 years later.

              No Joke, a problem like this is precisely why I signed on to this forum!

              Since then, I've had dozens of multiply registered boys make Eagle. They all preferred to keep their primary registration through the troop, but depending on what they were doing at the time of life rank, some have counted their time as a crew officer as their POR. They've all filled out their paperwork indicated that they've earned their award through the troop; however, one boy (who did all of his advancement with the troop), by a slip of the registrar's fingers, had his award attached to the crew. I told him I could arrange to change it back to the troop, but he wasn't bothered, so I wasn't.

              Anyway, the only thing that matters for eagle is that the boy held 6 months of POR in either or both of his units. No extra paperwork necessary. I encourage the troop committee to ask specific questions about a boys' venturing POR (regardless of if he's counting it for advancement) during their boards of review.

              So, he can put either unit on his application. Let him know that regardless, there's a 10% chance that council will screw it up on his NESA card.

              KM, as to why boys want things one way and not the other -- especially when all the work has been done and he's gonna get the signatures regardless, I have no clue! As I've said elsewhere, venturers have boundary issues -- in a good way. In this case, it kinda forces the BS out of the BSA.

              Comment

              Working...
              X