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  • Swimming exemption

    We have a Boy Scout who has received an exemption to one of the Second Class rank requirements from the Council, as he is unable to put his head under water:

    Demonstrate your ability to jump feetfirst into water over your head in depth, level off and swim 25 feet on the surface, stop, turn sharply, resume swimming, then return to your starting place.

    Our Committee is charged with finding an appropriate replacement activity. Any suggestions?

  • #2
    "Unable"...or "unwilling"?...I had a scout who was 15 before he made 2nd class for the same reason...the look on his face when he finally made it was priceless. He's now an Eagle Scout and a Junior in college.

    Comment


    • #3
      Can he do water sports at all? Is the disability permanent? Or, does the boy's doctor have an idea of his capabilities? These kind of things will determine the type of activity that would be a suitable replacement.

      Comment


      • #4
        Simple.......the boy does a crouch jump into the water over his head......with arm spread his head shouldn't go under the water............then he does the rest of the requirement....

        or

        have him enter the deep end via the swimming pool ladder......have him tread water away from the wall for a few seconds then begin the swimming portion.


        I am going to bet that the lad can't swim and is trying to get around the requirement.

        Comment


        • King Ding Dong
          King Ding Dong commented
          Editing a comment
          Always the optimist.

        • Basementdweller
          Basementdweller commented
          Editing a comment
          Guess you failed to read the rest of the posters???????

          More often than not, post like this are attempts to get around requirements for lads that lack the skills. How many threads about double counting service hours??? We are only talking about 12 hours of service total to get to Life scout??????? or the under the auspice thread???? Then we whine because the quality of the boys we are turning out is low.......

          My suggestions were fair......No where does it say in the requirement that you have to submerge your head.....

          Bottom line, jump in either as 92 suggests or enter in a manner to keep his head above the water......Swim the distance.

          In the webelos aquanaut thread, a dad ran is son to the pool every day and they swam till he passed the test......

        • King Ding Dong
          King Ding Dong commented
          Editing a comment
          I guess you could call the dog paddle swimming, I don't. Can you name a stroke that does not require you to submerge your head ?

      • #5
        seeing as it has been granted I guess it would depend on his exact limitations. You said he can not put his head underwater so I am assuming it might be due to inner-ear issues... if that is the case and he can swim the distance without his head being under water then I would suggest having him just use the steps into the pool and then swim the required distance keeping his head out of water. If you are looking for something totally out of the water then I would suggest a hike or bike ride and set the distance you think is appropriate.

        If this is going to be a forever issue I would start the paperwork now for the 1st class swim test too - I personally have never managed any back stroke or float without having ears in the water (assuming that it is an ear issue)

        Comment


        • Basementdweller
          Basementdweller commented
          Editing a comment
          I would never sub a non aquatic activity for this......

          he could use ear plugs to keep water out of his ears......

      • #6
        Steve could you provide the details of why he cannot?

        Comment


        • #7
          Steve,

          I second Stout's post, could you elaborate why he cannot have his head under water? There is a technique of entering water over your head BUT keeping your head above water that lifeguards use and is called a STRIDE ENTRY (caps for emphasis). Here is a link and it's page 60. http://trimbath.weebly.com/uploads/1...0/chapter5.pdf

          Now here's the deal. While the current version at the link has you using a rescue tube, it can be done without it. Basically lean forward with your arms behind you, "fall" into the water kicking your legs, whipping your torso back, and moving your arms forward pushing the water to keep you up. BUT it takes practice and more than likely will go under a few times.

          Now if the problem is related to an injury or surgery, i.e. stitches in the head, etc Could he wear a latex swim cap? If it is stitches on the face, could he wear a face mask? Gotta be careful that the mask stays on, speaking from first hand expereince here

          Comment


          • Basementdweller
            Basementdweller commented
            Editing a comment
            He can wait till the stitches are out.....

            I don't think it is palsey or anything like that from the original post.....

            Betting it is another neurotic scout.

          • King Ding Dong
            King Ding Dong commented
            Editing a comment
            Hey kettle, its the pot calling.

          • Basementdweller
            Basementdweller commented
            Editing a comment
            Don't think so...

            I am not the one micro managing my sons scouting career.....

            I am not the one lawyering the rules trying to create a high speed low drag scouting career. I believe in completing as written, but also understand there is intent behind them......

            I am a believer that every boy scout should know how to find a spot, build a fire, cook over it, clean it up....first aid skills and swim.....

        • #8
          Base,

          With all due respect, sometimes the opportunity to take a swim test only comes 1/year at summer camp for a variety of reasons for some units. And sometimes the only opportunity for swim lessons,or instructional swim as I remember taking way back when, is only available at summer camp. That's why I would like more information.

          Back to ideas.

          If it is indeed stictches, depending upon the location, and a MD or DO's OK, a latex swim cap may be the answer.

          If it is ear issues,tubes immediately comes to my mind, then the moldable silicon ear p;ugs may be the answer, again with a MD or DO's OK.

          If it is an extreme fear of being underwater due to a previous incident of near, or, as was my case, actual drowning, that allows the scout to swim OK in shallow water, but once in deep water with no feet to put on the bottom extreme panic, then my thoughts are not only no, but heck no.

          Again I was one of those who Scouts who when I started Scouts was a non swimmer who was terrified of water due to drowning at a young age (blacking out, CPR, EMS, etc) . Mom gave me an ultimatum a month after joining and finding out some of the stuff my first troop did: learn to swim or quit. I was extremely fortunate to have a YMCA nearby, and an instructor who had the patience of a saint to work with me, not only in class but also during his short break after a class one day that finally got me to swim like a fish in deep water.

          Swimming is a life skill, and one that I do not believe short cuts or modifications should be allowed EXCEPT in medical circumstances.

          Comment


          • #9
            The OP has not given much information to go on here, other than no head under water. I have zero experience what it takes to get an exemption from the council, but the fact that it was granted indicates it is legitimate, in my opinion. The range of reasons could be many and it may be that there is reason for his head to not even get wet. I would imagine most people are aware of swim caps and ear plugs and those options have been rulled out. Latex or silicon caps keep a lot of water out but not all. Maybe he has a scalp condition and chlorine severly aggravates it. I know of no salt water pool in the Midwest, those are usually only on the coasts. I have worked with a couple of kids who can swim well but have some sort of neurological condition that just drives their ears crazy trying to float on their backs. Who knows at this point. In the interest of being helpful to the OP and assuming the the best in people not the worst I offer theses suggestions. There are many skills that need to come together in order to successfully swim, head in water and breath control is an very important one but there are others. Arm and leg coordination as well as conditioning play a very important part as well. A straight leg kick, whip kick and even dolphin kick take many people time to develop and different muscles are used than on land. A PFD along with a kick board could be used to swim great distances and develop good technique. With a vest you PFD even arm movements could be added. Developing the ability to do these activities measured in the hundreds of yards not feet could go a very long way. One of the major reasons for the swimming requirements is survivability, not just fitness. Becoming very proficient in treading techniques would be very beneficial. The egg beater kick water polo players use takes a lot of skill for many to master. The ability to tread water for an extended period of time, say 20 or 30 minutes could go a long way in meeting the spirit of the requirements. Without looking the lifeguard requirements up I think five minutes without hands is all that is required. 20 minutes would be phenomenal and a great workout and self confidence. A spotter could be used to ensure he does not go under. The panic that can develop in an emergency situation is what does most victims in. He could even learned to propel himself in the water several hundred yards while treading. Though I would not call this "swimming" In short he could master many aquatic skills that do not require head submersion and be in a very good place when his medical situation is resolved. The real danger here is if the requirement is checked off and it is not stipulated that it must be revisited at a later time.

            Comment


            • #10
              Until we get that "clarification" by the OP, perhaps we should just hold off on further comments.

              Comment


              • King Ding Dong
                King Ding Dong commented
                Editing a comment
                We speculate, assume and make critical judgements with little to no facts all the time on this forum. Why should we stop now ?

                Oh, it would be that pesky Scout Oath thing, wouldn't it ?

              • Basementdweller
                Basementdweller commented
                Editing a comment
                Scout oath and law.....

                Your a funny guy.

                So your post to this point....

                I don't trust my son with his scout book.
                I want my scout to eagle as soon as possible
                I want my scout to earn the Outdoor achievement award.
                I want my scout and his best friend to hold Patrol activities.
                I want my scout to earn service hours for....
                I want my scout too..................................

                What about the rest of the guys in the troop???? Can they tag along too

              • King Ding Dong
                King Ding Dong commented
                Editing a comment
                BD you are completely misrepresenting my posts.

                The latest being the service hours. I specifically stated the service hours issue was in regards to the older scouts and had absolutely nothing to do with my son. Go read it.

            • #11
              you guys are too funny.......

              Personal experiences with poor swimming.....Lad was in a power struggle with dad and decided he could control his rank advancement by not passing it. Had a lad that refused to put his head under the water and ended up in such a panic during the swim test that he ended up in the nurse office and mom and dad came and got him from camp and they commuted to a motel every night.
              He dropped from the troop a couple of years ago....

              I have seen a guy with palsey pass the swimming test for pete sake.

              Comment


              • King Ding Dong
                King Ding Dong commented
                Editing a comment
                How is your personal experience with poor swimming helpful to MidwestSteve's situation ?

              • Basementdweller
                Basementdweller commented
                Editing a comment
                I have seen a bunch of boys who can't/won't swim for a million reasons.

                When a lad has the desire he will do it regardless of his physical condition....

                I will be surprised if we ever hear from steve again. He was looking for a single answer. a single post for a very specific answer. He had his answer 2 days ago.

              • King Ding Dong
                King Ding Dong commented
                Editing a comment
                That wouldn't surprise me one bit.
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