Pretty obvious that old charmoc is either a troll or king of paper eagles....
So folks nothing to see move on.
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National Outdoor Achievement Badges and Award Page Title Module
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Interesting arguments while I took the holiday off. I hope my paragraphs stay. Given Chris's response from Scouting Magazine it appears for the extra mile/hour/nights those requirements that do not fall under the Merit Badge must be at an "event". Given a decently active program and interestED scouts earning the rocker is hard in some cases but can be done. The camping rocker is not all that hard as it is only 5 more nights than the Camping MB. Lets now turn to the devices. The gold and silver are important for qualifying for the Medal. How are they earned ? It has already been established that there is no restriction on long term vs short term nights for the extra camping nights. Requirement 4 for camping clearly has auspices. What is the requirement for extra devices ? "A gold device may be earned for each additional 25 nights of camping. A silver device is earned for each additional 100 nights of camping. The Scout may wear any combination of devices totaling his current number of nights camping" Any mention of short or long term nights ? Any mention of auspices? No. The same language is used for all the other devices except for Adventure. Why is that? Lets look at the riding badge. If one were to only cycle and not ride a horse what would be required ? The cycling MB is 150 miles total. (No requirement for auspices on the distance rides). Requirement 2 is cycling MB plus 100 miles. Requirement 3 is Complete 200 miles of riding activities, either on a non-motorized bike or a stock animal, under the auspices of the Boy Scouts of America, including the miles in requirement 2. So 150 + 100 =250 so requirement 3 is met with 50 to spare. Only 50 miles need to be under the auspices in this scenario. Easily do able in a troop/patrol setting. The 200 miles needed for two gold devices would be quite a bit more difficult to get your troop/patrol to do. But there is no requirement for auspices for the gold or silver devices. I believe that is on purpose. Just as auspices is not included in the distance rides for the cycling MB. "Exactly as written" Lets look at aquatics 4. Earn at least one of the following merit badges: Canoeing, Kayaking, Rowing, Small-Boat Sailing, Whitewater. Complete at least 25 hours of on-the-water time, applying the skills that you learned in the merit badges. No auspices requirement here. You can easily rack up 25 hours of on-the-water-time working and practicing for two or three of these MB. Requirement 5 Complete at least 50 hours of any combination of swimming, canoeing, kayaking, rowing, small-boat sailing, or whitewater activity under the auspices of the Boy Scouts of America, including time spent in requirements 2 through 4. So this includes The 25 hours from requirement 4 so only another 25 hours need to be done under the auspices. That's not some huge mountain to climb. A troop should be able to provide that in their program or at camp. Again no auspices requirements for each 25 hours of aquatic activities. Let the boy go for it. Why hold him back ? I believe the Committee knew exactly what they were doing when writing theses rules. Encourage a robust troop program with a emphasis on outdoor activities that allows those Scouts that want to really "go for it" the opportunity to do so and earn devices and possible the Medal if they want to go for the additional requirements for the medal. Wilderness First aid and LNT trainer are substantial courses.
It all must be done with in scouting......
Why in the world would they require the first bit to be within scouting and then the additional for gold devices in any old manner....
I believe all of it should take place under the auspice.
Except for the camping MB and the Adventure activities, the Merit Badges such as hiking, cycling, orienteering etc have absolutely no requirement for within scouting. So the first bit does not necessarily take place within scouting. The middle bit does, and they make absolutely no mention of scouting for the last bit. Do you think this is an error on the part of the authors of the MB requirements and the authors of the NOB ? How many times to we hear "requirements exactly as written" ?
Complete 100 miles of hiking or backpacking under the auspices of the Boy Scouts of America, including miles hiked as part of requirement 2.
Complete at least 50 hours of any combination of swimming, canoeing, kayaking, rowing, small-boat sailing, or whitewater activity under the auspices of the Boy Scouts of America, including time spent in requirements 2 through 4
- Complete 10 of any combination or repetition of the following adventure activities under the auspices of the Boy Scouts of America:
Every single segment has an under the auspices line....Not sure what your looking at???????
So I will send my request for them to add the verbage under the auspices to the gold devices as well..... But it completely stupid that they need too.....you would think that in the main requirement is the only place it should be needed.
- May 2012
I wonder why?
As for the Way it is written Maybe they assumed to much...Like Assumed Nobody would try and Sneak in the Family Holiday at the Beach at the Hilton as Camping. Like trying to Sneak in The Family Pool without Following safety Rules..Maybe They assumed that since the Initial Segments were earned under the Auspice of the Boy Scouts of America people would understand without having to write that the Gold and Silver would also be earned under the Auspice of the Boy Scouts of America.
Why Did they Have to Write in each section.. Earn First Class?
Ever Stop and think this award was designed to be earned over time...segments first..followed By Gold..then Silver..Then National Medal for Outdoor Achievement
I wish they Had this when I was a Scout..but I am Happy to Have the 50 Miler, Historical Trails and the Paul Bunyan awards..NO METALSLast edited by jpstodwftexas; 07-07-2013, 06:07 PM.
I give up KDD your son's scouting program has got to be the absolute worst on the planet. Not meeting in the summer is not the norm in my part of the country, we all meet year round. We camp 11 months out of the year, canoe, hike, rapell, camp, backpack........
I am sorry that you feel the need to bend the rules so your scout can feel special.....
My boys, if they choice to earn it, will earn it as written..............At troop, patrol, council, or national events.
You were asked to be SM.....if you don't step up then whose to blame????????????????
07-09-2013, 08:06 AMEditing a commentSounds like your district guy is recruiting a new member for manning the councils cope course. Your unit probably won't benefit as much as you think....
Rapelling is to expensive on the unit level.......I know I could not afford the ropes, harnesses, helmets and hardware to equip a patrol... So your going to spend thousands of dollars on the gear and use it once a year or maybe twice.....
I have 4 boys who want to become rappell masters...but the minimum age is 14 so it will be a year or two....for most of them.....But We attend the local rappell master workshop as the test subjects.....
I will always contend that my scout riding his bike to the quickie mart for a slushy or hanging at the pool with his peeps checking out the ladies shouldn't count for the award. Even if your contending the desire to earn the award makes every activity he does Under the auspices.
07-09-2013, 10:45 AMEditing a commentBD, I completely agree about short distance rides not counting and I never claimed otherwise. I am talking about 10-15 mile and up rides. Not sure I would even consider counting a 5 mile ride, unless it was more a mountain biking trail.
Climbing is something I have always wanted to do. My grandfather started when he retired at 65 and eventually climbed all 10 or 12 Teton peaks. Our council has a great program. All gear is provided by council, just make your reservation. One close camp (20 minutes) has a night lit tower for $40 a unit. A 90 mile away camp has open face rock for $75 a unit. The unit just has to provide the trained and qualified instructors. Training weekend for climbing is $25 and then if you take Challenge course it is only $5 for that weekend. We have two challenge courses in the area. The council also has a partnership with a state park with bluffs over the Mississippi, again just check out the gear from the council ($75). That park is also very popular for Eagle watching. Sounds like a great program weekend to me.
At least 5 boys in our unit spent time at the tower at summer camp so there is some interest. I just need to recruit at least one other adult to take the training with me.
07-11-2013, 03:27 PMEditing a commentyour lucky.....I am told that our council had gear to loan or rent years ago.....
But abuse by the folks that borrowed it ended the practice......I understood they even loaned out canoes too....
Units screwing each other over.
- Oct 2008
Thanks for posting about this. I didn't realize this award existed, I'm going to suggest it to some in my troop. Aquatics and Camping should be pretty easy for my troop.
So back to my log book idea.....
keep in mind that I'm a cub leader, and as a youth wasn't very active as a scout..... and that was a long time ago anyway so I have little memory of requirements....
It seems that there are a lot of requirements for time and distance for the various merit badges and awards.
I can imagine boys that get started in scouting would have absolutely no idea about any of this...... but they might end up doing quite a lot of something that could apply to a merit badge or award during their first year or so, but have no idea to keep track of it....
So it seems to me again that encouraging a log book from the start might be a good idea...
logging everything that a boy does that might be "scouting" related
canoeing outings, miles paddled, Kayaking outings, miles paddled, bike trips, miles biked, number of camping trips, nights camped, numbers of hikes, miles hiked, etc.....
.... and it seems that under each of these categories to be tracked, he would need to record "auspices" or let's call it "free time"
For a very active boy in a very active family, or a very active troop, it could be hard or impossible to go back and remember all of these things once he decides to go for a certain badge or award.......
Do any boys do this?
Do any of you leaders encourage such tracking?
07-09-2013, 11:11 AMEditing a commentI will encourage my boys to do it. We have a very active and committed advancement chair that does a lot of this already in TroopMaster. It theScout should be doing this as well. He should write a short journal entry about each activity as well. I think that's what all the charting requirements in cubs were meant to foster.
I have sat on a few BOR already and it is sad to see the boys not logging camping nights and service hours.
blw2 commented07-09-2013, 01:58 PMEditing a commentah, another category to log..... service hours.
Scouter99 commented07-12-2013, 12:20 AMEditing a commentWhy log free time when it doesn't count. (I used a period on purpose )
Troop webhost records miles hiked, nights camped, service hours.....and I recently started tracking hours of water activity......But I use event notes for that....It all comes out on the scout history report.
Scouter99 commented07-12-2013, 12:19 AMEditing a commentIn my experience with TWH, the boy's can't do it, KDD. Ohhh, the FAQ says the Historian can take attendance, but he can't. And why would it be Historian and not Scribe to begin with? Anyway...the scout accounts can't do attendance. I imagine they can't add events or log miles/hours, either.
07-12-2013, 07:30 AMEditing a commentYou just need to create a job title historian or scribe and give him permissions to access program....
perdidochas commented07-12-2013, 08:44 AMEditing a commentScouter99,
It's very easy to set up a Scribe or historian role and assign it to a Scout. We've done that, now we just have to get our Scribe to consistently show up :-)
many posts back, Basement wrote, "The best part....he will never have intended to earn it....He will have earned it thru the course of an active scouting career.....Not thru book keeping tricks."
Not that's a noble goal! I wish it could truly flow like that...... The boys go out and do scout stuff, have fun, then at some meeting some time in the future, they get surprised with some award that someone figured out that they earned. Thing is though, who is that "someone"? At some point it has to become and intention to earn it, otherwise who would know if meets the requirements if not for some book keeping?
why doesn't it flow like that???? I have one scout that just finished pioneering at summer camp and will receive the initial award and the camping rocker in a couple of weeks.....He has no clue he earned it......
As SM I just keep track of who shows up for what.......For patrol outings I rely on the PL for the info.....
It is no big deal....
If your program is active enough it camping and high adventure will just happen, Aquatics, well the mile swim is going to take some pushing, hiking with a bit of guiding will happen, riding is an issue.
blw2 commented07-13-2013, 06:33 PMEditing a commentWell that's great. I hope it does if/when my son crosses into a troop!
My only point was that at some point somebody has to go back and count up miles, nights, or whatever the criteria..... and if the boy doesn't do it, then who. I guess in your boys' case it's you..... I like the sound of the boys just having fun, and not really aiming for an award. Kinda makes the log book something I don't want to encourage.... except I think setting goals and working towards them can be good too.
Ok KDD and BLW
we are going to look at the requirement
Camping. A Boy Scout or Varsity Scout may earn the National Outdoor Badge for Camping upon successfully completing the following requirements:
- Earn the First Class rank.
- Earn the Camping merit badge.
- Earn two of the following three merit badges: Cooking, First Aid, Pioneering.
- Complete 25 days and nights of camping—including six consecutive days (five nights) of resident camping, approved and under the auspices and standards of the Boy Scouts of America—including nights camped as part of requirements 1 through 3 above.
So item 4 says 25 nights under the auspices........The following line says for each additional 25 nights..... I don't think that they should have to rewrite under auspices again in the following sentence.........
So KDD's exactly as written does not apply.
He forwarded my inquiry to the appropriate team for a response. I will post it when I receive it.