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No Patch- No SMC and No BOR

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  • No Patch- No SMC and No BOR

    A simple scouting dad, looking for direction.

    Today my kid, who is first class, went for SMC and BOR. In our troop, the last Tuesday is always BOR and SMC for advancements. Though my kid had all requirements and paper work, he was refused SMC for he was missing a patch which was about 2 years old. Does this sound right? I did go through the complete handbook to see this requirement and did not find any. Pls advice.

  • #2 Wearing the Uniformor Neat in Appearance
    It is preferred a Scout be in full field uniform for any
    board of review. He should wear as much of it as he
    owns, and it should be as correct as possible, with the
    badges worn properly. It may be the uniform as the
    members of his troop, team, crew, or ship wear it.
    If wearing all or part of the uniform is impractical for
    whatever reason, the candidate should be clean and
    neat in his appearance and dressed appropriately,
    according to his means, for the milestone marked by
    the occasion. Regardless of unit expectations or rules,
    boards of review may not reject candidates dressed to
    this description; neither may they require the purchase
    of uniforming, or clothing such as coats and ties.(This message has been edited by kristian)


    • #3
      Short reply - best find a better troop.


      • #4

        What does your son think? It's his issue to deal with. I hope you are simply looking for perspective so you can give him guidance and aren't thinking this is something you need to address yourself.

        You don't really give enough information about how the situation was handled to really offer an opinion. I can think of a number of circumstances under which your son's outcome would have been acceptable. Is the troop's expectations clearly communicated? As a Star candidate, he should know what the troop's expectations are. Does your son's troop do frequent uniform inspections so he would have been aware of the problem? Was the situation handled in a helpful, friendly way? I could see handing a kid the patch, a needle and thread and helping him sew it on. In fact, one time I had a kid show up for a BOR without his uniform. We rather made a joke of it and his patrol mates started stripping down, giving him various parts of their uniforms and borrowing stuff out of the uniform closet. The kid wound up looking like hell, but he was in a full uniform. Learning occurred and everyone had a good time with it.

        On the other hand, if the leadership handled it like a bunch of pompus, pedantic twits; if they make it a "gotcha" session; didn't try to create a learning opportunity or behave in a Scoutlike manner, I'd have an issue with them.


        • #5
          It depends...lots of variables not mentioned in your post.

          Key question: Which patch? First Class rank? PL/SPL? Or camporee?

          If it was a rank or position patch, well, maybe the SM was trying to get a message across.

          If it's been two years, my hunch is this is not the first time the SM has mentioned this to your son.

          A Star candidate isn't going to get the same slack as a Tenderfoot pursuing Second Class.


          • #6
            Yah, ScoutDaddy21, welcome to da forums and thanks for the question!

            It's tough bein' dad, eh?

            I would say that your son is a First Class Scout, looking to become a Star Scout. This is an issue that he needs to tackle on his own while dad watches proudly and silently from the shadows. At least for the first round, eh?

            Different troops approach correct uniforming for a BOR differently, and sometimes in a given troop someone will go off da rails or have a bad night, just like all of us do from time to time. Either way, it's a wonderful learning experience for your son about behaviors, and expectations, and how people can view things differently. What's just fine to him can give others da appearance that he's sloppy and lazy, eh? One part of character development sometimes is learning that there's real merit in takin' pride in your work and your appearance, and that people notice when yeh don't.

            So at this point, without further information, I'd say "no harm, no foul." Don't make the mistake of arguin' balls and strikes with the Little League umpire, whether he's right or wrong. Instead, take the opportunity to spend some quality time with your son, and drive him to the scout shop where he can buy his missing patch with his own earned money. Buy him a burger along the way and use it for some quiet support for how proud you are of him. Make sure he sews his own patch on.

            He'll see your trust in him to solve his own problems and your quiet support as a part of you beginning to see him as a young man instead of a little boy. It's a wonderful gift, eh? Take it that way.

            Be sure to drop back in next month to let us know there's another fine Star Scout out there.



            • #7

              Like others have stated, a little detail would be very helpful about this one.

              But taking your post at face value, it reads that he wasn't denied a BOR because of the missing patch but a SMC. Not sure how others here feel about that, but it would make a difference to me. It's one thing to not get a job interview because you showed up in jeans and a t-shirt. It's another to have a job where your boss won't talk to you because of your wrinkled khakis.

              But to say again, a little detail could go a long way with this one.

              P.S. Beavah, not arguing balls & strikes with a LL Ump, whether he is right or wrong? Thank you again for another great phrase I plan to borrow in the near future.


              • #8
                Yep. Son #1 got dinged for not showing up at BOR with his book, his patches were in order, though. By the time boys are up for Eagle SMC/BOR's they look pretty sharp. (Sometimes I get panicked calls from a sharp boy who can't find his scout belt 15 minutes befor his SMC. That's not something we all fet over, but after I hung up it was really temping to call the SM and ask him to rattle the boy a little.)

                If I were him, I'd bust the PL/SPL's chops for not noticing his patch on inspection. Of course they might bust back saying they told him once last year.

                Then I'd sew the patch on, ask the SM if it's adequate and ask if he could complete his conference sooner rather than later. In fact, if the troop is camping soon he might ask "I'd really like to have a fireside conference and BOR, is there any chance we can make that happen?"


                • #9
                  By Star it should get a bit tougher. We send out a list so the boys know whats up. We have let boys come around for another try on BOR night and have seen them scrambling in the patrol closet for shirts and pants, borrowing belts, socks, and pens from other boys, and stapling on patches. We have given boys a needle and thread and no matter how ragged he does we count it.

                  It is rarely a problem with our younger guys but usually the 14 and 15 year olds going for Star and Life. They also seem to work at looking ragged.

                  Which patch? I would want:
                  Patrol (losing that battle--though we have given rewards to boys with the correct one)


                  • #10
                    As was pointed out on a uniform: He should wear as much of it as he
                    owns, and it should be as correct as possible, with the
                    badges worn properly.

                    If he doesn't own the patch (say he lost it) he cannot be denied a SMC or a BOR. The section of the Guide to Advancement quoted by Kristian applies. It is BSA policy, your unit can't ignore it.

                    As for a book. If a Scout doesn't have his book the BOR should be held anyway and the Scout passed on the condition that the book still needs to be checked. The Scout will not be considered as passing the BOR until the book is checked.

                    (This message has been edited by bnelon44)


                    • #11
                      There are some good training videos your unit may want to review here:



                      • #12

                        To answer your question directly, there is no such requirement in the book. You can stop looking for it, it does not exist

                        You said your scout was to have a Scoutmaster Conference for Star. Could it be the patch issue was talked about before and was ignored?

                        To me, yes, its against the rules, but it may be a better lesson for your son in listening and meeting the expectations presented to him, regardless of the validity of the expectation


                        • #13
                          He was denied an SMC. (Any written rule rule about?) Perhaps the SM was trying to get him in shape for his BOR?
                          Much better to be quietly turned back early, and have a chance o correct a problem than to suffer the embarrassment of a BOR rejection.
                          It's actually good that your SM is taking pride in the scouts he sends up.

                          That said, I once harassed a scout who got his BOR for 2nd Class and 1st Class on the same night. I had him convinced that he wasn't going to get 1st Class because he didn't have his 2nd Class badge sewn on for his First Class BOR that was ten minutes later.

                          I never said I was a nice person.


                          • #14

                            I hope that as your boy progresses, matures, etc. he develops an awareness of the importance of this "lesson". If he's PL, he'll work with his boys to make sure they are ready for their SMC's and BOR's. He'll check over their paperwork with them, make sure their uniform is spiffed up, and the boy doesn't have to go through what he has had to.

                            Yes, it's difficult for your son today, but tomorrow, he'll be and even better scout than the adults he has to work with. But that's the key, even the inept adults he has to work with will give him insights into how to work better with others in the future.

                            Suck it up, find the patch, and make sure he learns what he needs to do to help others in similar situations.

                            I often see a lot of scouting "crap" become some rather valuable lessons for the boys down the road.

                            A scout is friendly, helpful, kind, courteous, and as he learns the difficulties in maintaining these Laws, he will develop into a really neat kid!



                            • #15
                              I am an SM and would not refuse a SMC based on a missing patch. Far as only having SMC once per month?????? I do them when ever the scout asks, generally before or after the meeting.