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  • #31
    >


    Interesting observation.

    A Cubmaster I know has a home schooled son who won first place in the council popcorn sale, selling $6500 in popcorn two years ago. A year ago he came in second place in the popcorn sale selling $13,000 in popcorn.

    The boy is an excellent kid and dad is an insurance salesman who has devoted a lot of time to selling pop corn with his son.

    At least in this case, I don't see anything harmful about the close association between the boy and Dad in selling popcorn, and Dad has pretty much financed a relatively expensive pack program through revenues from the popcorn sale and running a quality program without as much help as he should have had.

    The boy has made Cub Scouts and selling popcorn his own goals that he chooses to achieve. But I imagine that Dad has had a significant role in choosing those goals.

    Not a problem in this case, anyway, in my view.

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    • #32
      I agree with Eagledad that the kids want to know if the adults get it. It becomes a bit of a trust issue - if they don't think you get it, they won't trust your evaluation of their efforts, either. One of my son's former SMs used to praise the heck out of every kid all the time no matter what heinous thing the little darlings had just gotten caught (red handed) doing. Yeah, I know, praise in public, scold in private, but he also never did the latter. Every kid seemed to have endless chances with no repercussions for screwing up (no matter how seriously).

      Got to a point where some of the boys just completely discounted anything the guy said, especially compliments or anything about the value of the rank they'd just been awarded, because they didn't trust him to be honest with them about how they were doing. They wanted real recognition for genuine achievement, not spun sugar and vacuous "you're special!" back-patting. Some of the boys were of the opinion that he was spineless in the face of bullies or standards, too.

      In truth, I think the guy was just a very optimistic person who wanted to build people up and give chances to some kids who came from the school of hard knocks. But it is real easy to lose credibility with middle schoolers and high schoolers, if the kids don't believe you aren't honest with them or that you don't know when you're being buffaloed.


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      • #33
        The contemporary emphasis on "Making Eagle" is nuts.

        It's a way to keep membership, etc., gets parents involved.

        But the real purpose of the advancement system is to generate SELF-MOTIVATION.

        A kid should pull himself up the rope on his own. This is what builds character, sticking to a goal like this.

        It's damnable that parents push their kids on the track, and horrible that the scout program has put this up as the Big Goal of it all.

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        • #34
          Mr. Boyce, thank you for saying everything that needed to be said.

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          • #35
            >>It's damnable that parents push their kids on the track, and horrible that the scout program has put this up as the Big Goal of it all.

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            • #36
              The lawyer father's position is???

              I would point out to the father that there are procedures that MUST be followed: POR, SMC, BOR and PROPER paperwork filed that get noted in a Scout's record. That record is called a personal profile. Why don't you ask at your council office for the Scout's personal profile. That is the OFFICIAL record that lords over ALL matters including ANY Troop's paperwork. It is also the BASE to use when transfers between Troops happen. Regardless what happens in previous Troops, Council records stand. Even if the Scout's book is signed off, you have the right to disregard it and stand by COUNCIL'S record.

              Anyone can buy a patch but that person but they are not supposed to and can be told to remove it if it hasn't been official awarded via the proper paperwork to council. Only certain people can file that proper paperwork in their capacity of Scoutmaster and/or Advancement Chair. As a Scoutmaster, this lawyer father needs to follow the rules just like everyone else so stand your ground. Warn him that when he moves he loses time as records start fresh again.

              Records between Troop can only be transferred from one of the three positions: Scoutmaster, Advancement Chair or Committee Chair. The father has no say in going over those leadership people regardless of whether he is a lawyer. He is doing his son a de-service not following the rank advancement and practicing the Boy Scout Oath and 12 points of the Scout Law.

              I will tell him that things are earned not given just because the father wants them given. Scouting is a lawyer court where one is out to win but tested to show one has the skills.

              Guide to Advancement 2011:http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

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              • #37
                Who cares.....at this rate he will eagle at 11 and the whole thing will be over.

                Just another paper eagle, like grains of sand on the beach....Occasionally one of them is lucky enough to become a pearl.

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                • #38
                  Deaf Scouter: Well done! You've been through the Eagle process or have really done your homework!

                  Base: He'll be an Eagle all right: A "Backyard Eagle In His Own Mind," but not an Eagle Scout according to BSA. Any SM/CC/Advancement Chair who tries to pencil-whip this kid through because of daddy's threats shouldn't be an SM,CC,or any adult leader for that matter. Fraudulent. I'd like to be a fly on the wall when the DAC says to daddy, "ummm.....no." If it were I being "lawyered at," I'd say, "OK, see you in court!"

                  I think we all know who would prevail here.

                  (Edited for glaring grammatical error...sorry I'm anal that way.)(This message has been edited by FrankScout)

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                  • #39
                    FrankScout... It was both. I had a situation in my troop where the Dad and three of his brothers were Eagles so Dad expected his sons to be Eagle without doing the work. Proof was heavily needed to make my stand in badges are EARNED not given Hence the reason for the Council profiles. I found later they were so useful in other aspects like training... *grins

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